Issue with a Model 70...made in New Haven **** 8/9 UPDATE***

[Paints-n-cows]

About a month ago, I bought a used Model 70 in .300 WSM that looks to be in almost new condition.  It has New Haven, Ct on the side of the barrel.

This afternoon was the first chance that I had to actually take it out and shoot it.  

It has the Leupold bases and rings on it that have the adjustment screws on the rear mount.  I saw that the previous owner had the rear mount slid as far to the left as it could possibly go....but didn't think much about it.

When I shot the rifle at 25 yards (just to make sure it was on paper), it printed about 2 inches high.  I put about 8 clicks down and then backed up to 100 yards.

The rifle wouldn't put anything on an 18" x 18" grid target.  Thinking that it was me and not being used to the trigger, I fired again.  Nope, nothing.  I moved the target back to 50 and nothing there either.  Back to 25, and it was lined up vertically but about 7 inches horizonally to the right.  I thought that was strange but put a few clicks back to the left.  Nothing moved on the target face....and then I ran out of adjustment to the right on the scope.  BTW, the scope is a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x40.

Back in the house because I thought that something had possibly shot loose in the base screws and since I hadn't installed them, I was going to check it out.

Once I had the rings off, I immediately saw the problem.  The tops of the bases were not on the same plane.  Either the front is off to the left or the rear is canted off to the right side.  That would explain why the rear ring was slid to the left as far as it could go.  I believe that if it had Weaver type mounts/rings on it, you would not have been able to mount a scope to it they are that far out.  

Ok, so now the dilemma.  Is this something that Winchester will make right or did I just get the royal douching?  Obviously it is a manufacturing issue from when the holes were drilled and tapped at the factory.

[Keith L]

You may want to check out the mounts.  It may be the mounts were something the previous owner had that the holes lined up but were for a different rifle.  Or perhaps the front and back mounts are not for the same rifle.

[mcwoodduck]

I would dismount the mounts and get new ones for the rifle.
One of the reasons you have it is the guy before may have had the wrong mounts on the rifle and could not hit squat and sold the gun and kept the scope.

[Paints-n-cows]

Here are two pictures that hopefully represents what I found when I pulled the bases off.

[saddlebum]

Looks like the front mounting holes are off center enough to the left that you might be able to just drill and tap new holes on center without welding up the old ones. Ask a gunsmith. Near as I can tell from the photo the serial number looks off too,maybe. Like maybe the reciever was not mounted in the jig right when Winchester stamped and drilled the holes. Thats messed up.
If a smith can drill and tap holes next to the old ones then you can Lok-Tite or JB Weld filler screws in the old ones. That might be the cheapest way to go, if it would work. I don't know if anyone makes a base that would compensate for that much off. If so it might make for an uncomfortable hold when you shoulder it to shoot. Might have to use your left eye if your right handed, if you know what I mean.     But it looks like it needs new holes from what I can see. Sorry for your troubles.

Note: Smith will have to remove the barrel to drill and tap the holes.

[mcwoodduck]

Instead of Welding I would just get fill screws and tap that way you do not have to reblue.
Before doing that I would call Winchester (FN) and see if they will fix it.

They are still making the Model 70 at the FN plant.

[Paints-n-cows]

Any chance that Winchester will make it right?

[mcwoodduck]

I just added that to my post.
What's the worst thing they can say?
No.
I am going to guess they will have you send it in to them.

[Paints-n-cows]

I am going to call them tomorrow and see.  

Obviously it is a manufacturing mistake and instead of opening up the liability of someone drilling holes in their receiver to make it a right, they would be better served by taking it back and replacing it.

The only experience with factory warranty work that I have had has been with Remington.

The first was a 700 CDL Classic that always shot to the right when the barrel got hot.  The stock finally split at the pistol grip and they replaced it.

The second was a pair of 700 ADLs in .22-250 whose finish always showed rusty when you wiped them down.  Remington took them back and reparkerized them.

Maybe Winchester will have as good customer service as Remington.  As a footnote, this is the second Winchester rifle that I have owned.  The first was a 670 in .30-06 that I should have never sold years ago.

[saddlebum]

Let us know how it goes with Winchester. I am curious if they will take responsibility for US Repeating Arms guns.

[Paints-n-cows]

This rifle has the New Haven markings on it and Winchester markings.

Is this a USRA weapon?

[mcwoodduck]

i think it is.
Even if not, Winchester is Winchester and will stand behind the warranty.

[Happy]

i think it is.
Even if not, Winchester is Winchester and will stand behind the warranty.

You may find out that winchester is not a winchester , but differerent companys licenced to use the winchester brand name . Thus I doubt if FN the company that is licenced to use winchester 's name now ,will stand  up to repair a firearm made not by them but by the former new Haven plant .
You might ask though as there is only two answers to the question a Yes or a No.

I would think a Gunsmith could Quickly redrill the  reciever of that gun as long as there is room . The last gun I had drilled and tapped cost fivteen dollars a hole ( Canadain ) And no the barrel does not need to come off>

[mcwoodduck]

The same company that has been licinseing the Winchester name is the same company that ownes Browning and FN.
While Winchester has moved that ownership / licenseing has not.
While S&W has changed hands a few times the warranty of a firearm has not ended with the new ownership.
As Remington aquired other gun companies they honor the warranty of  Marlin, Bushmaster ,and H&R.

[saddlebum]

Hope I'm wrong about the barrel removal for drilling the front hole. My understanding is that if the end of the barrel is farther back than the hole, it has to be removed so as to drill through the receiver. Also for the tap. Yours may be different but my Winchesters have all shown the end of the barrel at the middle point of the hole. Preventing drill through. You can see it when you look in the hole. Hope I'm wrong. Barrel removal and installation is no big deal. Maybe a tad more costly.

Ever type out a post and the server is too busy and won't let you post it? Pain in the butt.    

[saddlebum]

Maybe this helps. The last one has a phone number.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?id=219

http://www.winchesterguns.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?id=216

http://www.winchesterguns.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?id=215

[Paints-n-cows]

I called Winchester customer service on Tuesday and told them about my issue with the rifle.  The guy there told me to send back to the Arnold, Missouri and they would let me know what they would do.  When I asked how long it would take, he said 8-10 weeks.  However, when I explained the gravity of the repair (and I told him "nothing to hold you to"), he said they would probably replace the receiver or complete rifle.  It went in the mail today.

Here are some pics of the problem that I found. 

The first and second pictures show how misaligned the holes are.  Not the reference of the ruler to the straight edge along the side of the receiver.
The third pic shows the misalignment of the top planes of the front and rear bases.
The fourth pic shows the front ring on the suface of the counter and the rear ring approximately 1/8" higher.

[Swampman]

Remington took them back and reparkerized them.

Remington does not parkerize their sporting firearms.  They are matte blued.

Hope they fix your Model 70.

[Paints-n-cows]

Both of those rifles were parkerized.  This was about 5 years ago and I will search and see if I can find the copy of the work order from Remington.

Their finish is a lot different than the one on this most recent Remington SPS in matte blue.

[Paints-n-cows]

I got a letter back from Browning/Winchester that says:

"We regret to inform you that we are not able to repair your firearm, nor do we have a similar model available in inventory to offer as a replacement.

We are able to offer you $554 towards the purchase of a new firearm from the products listed in the catalog(s).  This credit is redeemable through our catalog and is subject to availablility.  This offer is not valid for pistols.  This offer is valid for 30 days from the date of the letter.  If you choose not to accept this offer, your firearm will be returned to you without modification."

So now the question....what do I want to replace it with?  They sent me a Browning catalog only and so I called them to find out if I could purchase another Winchester and the customer service rep. said to just go online and look at Winchester's website and pick one from there.  

He also said the MSRP price was what I had to deduct the credit amount from.

I am leaning toward the Featherweight 7mm-08...and just replacing the larger magnum later on.  The Browning rifles are just outrageous and don't appear to hold their value as well as the Winchesters and Remingtons do.  I would even consider a decent duck gun but the MSRP of their shotguns in both brands just make me love my 870/11-87s even more.

Needless to say I am considering both value on my money that I am putting in on top of the credit and the quality level of the firearm.

Any suggestions?

[Swampman]

I'd get a .30-06 or a .270 FW.

[Bigeasy]

I'd say thats pretty darn good service for a gun you bought used, and that FN did not make in the first place.  It's good to see they are standing by the Winchester name.  What to buy?  Only you can decide that..

Larry

[Paints-n-cows]

Thats kind of what I was thinking.  To be honest about it, I was not really wanting the 300 WSM to begin with but it had a Leupold Vari X III 4.5-14x40 on it.

I have always had a fascination for the 7mm-08 and that in a Featherweight platform with that glass on top should be a good combination. 

I already have a .270 Weatherby Mark V that probably does as much as some of the .30s for that "reach out and touch them" events.  One belted magnum is plenty for me.

However, if I go that route, I have bunch of .300 WSM brass and dies that I have now acquired to swap or sell.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

[Bigeasy]

A light weight 7mm-08 is a fine deer rifle.  These days, when I hunt with a rifle, I usually use either a Kimber or a Ruger Compact in that caliber, loaded with 140 grain Nosler Partitions.  Will kill any deer walking, as well as the odd black bear, with plenty of penetration, and not a lot of kick, weight, or noise.

Larry

[saddlebum]

So just because they don't have one in,"inventory", you can't get a replacement? What you got was better than I expected, but it sounds like a lame excuse to not replace it with this. It looks,"similar", to yours......(I bet the recievers look "similar" too!)

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535114

They could have done nothing so the discount on a new one is good !

[LONGTOM]

Before I would lay out the extra money on a new gun I would check a good gunsmith.
This is something that should be able to be fixed with out to much trouble or cost.



LONGTOM

[Slowpoke Slim]

I dunno, I think I would take the offer and run with it. Too bad you have to "pay" MSRP for the new one though.

The holes may not be drilled off center. It could very well be that the receiver is twisted. Sure it can be fixed, but it may not just be a simple weld up and redrill.

Get the caliber you want and trade off the components. Lots of guys shooting 300 wsm's.

[Mr. Joe]

You lucky son of a gun!  I would buy a super grade .270 so fast your head would spin!!!

[Paints-n-cows]

Well I am still waiting on them sending me the new rifle.  I just checked the Browning website and it says "RMA Completed" and " Firearm is ready inspection after repair has been made".

Not sure why you would have to inspect a brand new firearm but I would guess that it has something to do with the paperwork issue.  That was what the explanation on the website has said for the last 3 weeks.

Maybe it will show up soon.

Now if anyone needs any 300 WSM brass, dies or ammo and has some 7mm-08 stuff to swap, I am listening

[glazer1972]

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535110 in .308 or .30-06