Ruger 1-B in .22 Hornet or .218 Bee

[John (Rojo)]

Would like some opinions on the 1-B in .22 Hornet and .218 Bee.  It seems there has been a revival of the Hornet,  and there has been a lot of positive feedback on this oldtimer.  I looked at some ballistics tables,  and it appears that Bee out performs the Hornet in stock factory loadings.  The Hornet seems to have cult following and growing one at that.  I am going to get one or the other.  Which is most preferred.   Thanks much.

John (Rojo)

[cam0063]

Hi John,

I donot have a Ruger No1 in either of these cartridges, but am having built a .218Bee Improved on a Martini Cadet action.  Those that shoot the Bee wouldnot change, just depends on what you are wanting to achieve. Over in this country the .22 Hornet is more popular than the .218 Bee.  Bee ammo is very expensive and mainly a reloading proposition. Hornet ammo is available everywhere, but is getting expensive too.

I was after a cartridge for varmint shooting here on my Ranch. A cartridge with more grunt than the .22 Hornet, but well below my .243. The .218Bee Imp is my choice. It can be loaded down to hornet ballistics and pepped up a  above standard.218Bee for longer shots, improved extraction and better use of available projectiles. I have no personal experience with this cartridge, but do shoot a .22 hornet and have done quite a bit of reasearch here before making my choice...

.22 Hornet standard or Improved/K, .218 Bee standard or Improved, I don`t think you can go wrong, they are all fun!

cheers,

Cam......

* the standard .218 Bee can be fired in the improved .218 chamber too... [ditto for the .22 hornet in the Improved/K hornet]

[John (Rojo)]

Cam,  

Thanks for the info.  Question,  Since I am not all that familiar with the Hornet,  does the "K" Hornet equal the ballistics of the factory .218 Bee, or exceed it.  Also, which one is more reloader friendly?  

Any and all information from Hornet and Bee shooters is welcome and appreciated.

John (Rojo)

[cam0063]

John,

I believe the standard factory loading of the the 218bee is very similar to handloaded .22k hornet ballistics. I have a straight .22 hornet, I should say, my brother does. The main reason people here go to the "k" chambering is not so much for the extra couple of grains gained, but the extended case life and better extraction of the K hornet!

Some load info I have on file from "the reload bench" and other sources... This is just as an informative guide. I have not loaded for these cartridges as yet myself...

cheers,

Cam....

*218 Mashburn Bee
Historical Notes:

The 218 Mashburn Bee is an improved version of the factory 218 Bee. Cases are made by firing factory ammunition in the Mashburn chamber, so no special case forming dies are required. The cartridge was the work of A. E. Mashburn of the Mashburn Arms Company in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. As near as can be determined, the cartridge originated in about 1940 or thereabouts. The improved case produced better ballistics than the original Bee and also offered longer case life when reloaded. There are other Improved versions of the 218 Bee, but they are all pretty much alike. The Mashburn Bee will deliver about the same velocity with the 55 grain bullet as the factory Bee delivers with the 45 grain bullet.

General Comments:

The Mashburn Bee was fairly popular until the advent of the 222 Remington. It was, and still is, a very  accurate varmint cartridge. The best powders for loading these small cartridges are IMR-4198 and IMR-4227.
Source: Cartridges of the World
 
218 Mashburn Bee Reloading Data
Bullet (grs.)   Powder / (grs.)   MV   ME   Source
40HP   IMR-4227 / 16.5   3300   960   n/a
45SP   IMR-4227 / 16.3   3319   1100   Ackley
50SP   IMR-4198 / 17.3   3300   1210   Ackley

*The 22 K-Hornet
Historical Notes:
Originated by Lysle Kilbourn in 1940, this was one of the first of the so called "improved" cartridges. It is based on the fire formed and blown out of the22Hornet case with a straight body, sharp shoulder and short neck. There are other versions, but this is the most popular and is representative of the lot. It has been used for a good many years and is still popular in varmint shooting circles. Extensive experience with this cartridge in the Thompson Contender show fairly substantial improvements over the 22 Hornet. The popularity of the 22 K-Hornet was based on increased performance, plus the fact that any regular factory loaded ammunition could also be fired in the same chamber. In addition, the conversion is quite cheap, and any Hornet rifle can be rechambered. Ammunition is no problem because the round is based on easily obtainable factory ammunition. It brings the 22 Hornet into the same class as the 218 Bee with the added advantage that the 22 hornet was chambered in several good bolt action rifles. It is suitable for the same range of varmints and small game as the 218 Bee. Those lucky enough to find an original Kimber rifle chambered for the 22 K-Hornet can pride themselves in owning a superb rifle.

Reloading data:
These are some of my favorite loads for the 22K-hornet in both the TC Contender and the Ruger M77/22 K-hornet. I would like to mention that I would try small pistol primers with the K-hornet reloads if your current load is not yielding the accuracy you expect.
All loads listed should be approached very carefully using normal reloading procedures, remember when reloading data on the web is considered, be sure to look at a RELOADING MANUAL first.

22 K-hornet Reloading Data
Bullet (grs.)   Powder / (grs.)   MV   ME   Source
45 SP   IMR 4227 / 12.5   2875   825   
45 SP   2400 / 11.5   2900   840   Ackley
45   IMR 4198 / 14.5   2800   780   Ackley
50 SP   2400 / 11.0   2700   810   Ackley
35 Vmax   H110 / 11           
52 HP   Lil'Gun / 13.5           
45 SP   WW296 / 11.5   2650       
45 SP   AA1680 / 13.3   2525       
45 SP   H4227 / 11.4   2500       
40 Vmax   Lil'Gun / 14.0   2875       
45 SP   AA-9 / 9.0   2375       
                
(Reduced load)               
Any 40 -45   Bullseye / 3.5   1600

[Larry Gibson]

John (Rojo)

I have had a Ruger #3 in .22 Hornet since the late '70s.  I have put thousands of rounds through it mostly shooting ground squirrels and a few coyotes and rockchucks too.  The Ruger SS actions completely enclose the case and by neck sizing you will eliminated any case stretching problems that the K-Hornet was designed to solve.  I use Redding bushing dies these days to neck size just enough of the neck to hold the bullet.  With H110 and a 45 gr Hornady or Sierra Hornet bullet I get 2970 fps and sub MOA accuracy.  With the 40 gr bullets I push them a little over 3000 fps.  A K-Hornet is not needed.  The same loads work as well in my 21" TC barrel and a friends 77/22H also.  However, these loads are to much for the older Savage Hornets.  If one wants more performance than the Hornet can provide in a Ruger SS you're better off stepping up to the .222 or .223.

Larry Gibson

[cam0063]

John,

Are you reloading your own ammo? If not, the pick of the the Hornet and the Bee maywell be the Hornet. I can`t speak for the U.S, but the Hornet is much cheaper to buy factory ammo for here than the Bee and it is pretty well available anywhere. Is about the only reasons the Bee doesn`t have a bigger following... The Bee and Bee improved advantage to me is in reloading...

I use our Hornet from time to time, but for "my intended purposes" the Bee Improved has enough gain in extra range and better use of projectiles than the Hornet to make it my choice... I can load down to Hornet ballistics if need be, but I can't see me wanting to. I can use the Hornet if I need to. However it will take a second seat on my ranch to the Bee improved.

The .222 and .223 are very good choices! I have a .243 which does all my long range varminting and pig hunting, some use the .223 here for the same role. Is just up to the individual... My interest in a smaller .22 center fire is less muzzle blast and I am using it at shorter ranges than I need a bigger .22 center fire or my .243 for and just for shooting Varmints and pests...

If you can try and shoot those cartridges that interest you. Will help a lot... A few descisions ahead for you... Good shooting and have fun.

cheers,

Cam...

ps - a couple of books that are interestting to have on your shelf are - Ken Water "Pet Loads" and Barnes "Cartridges of the World"...

[John (Rojo)]

Thanks for the replies so far.  You have given me a lot of useful  information that will help me in my selection.

John (Rojo)

[jeff]

John

Everything that CAM said is right on target, and here's my contribution.

One thing that you might want to consider is the size of the case and your hand/fingers particularly if you plan on reloading.

The Bee case is a wee bit larger and easier to grasp (in my opinion) particularly if you reload.  Bee brass is slightly thicker than Hornet in either case I would recommend that the cases be annealed to reduce or prevent neck splitting.

Either of the improved chamberings (K-Hornet or Mashburn) are such that you can still fire regular ammo with good results.  The K-Hornet dies are less than half of what Mashburn dies will cost.  My Mashburn dies are RCBS that I scored on eBay for cheap.  New ones are a bit over $100.

One thing to consider if you go to the Mashburn, since it's a rechambering issue you might be able to have your g'smith rework a regular Bee die to match your 'new' chamber.  This would probably be the best way to go.

Pic shows a virgin Bee, fireformed & resized and loaded Mashburn.

jeff

[John (Rojo)]

Jeff,  that is good information that I can hang on to.  There's no doubt that the people who shoot this round absolutely love it.  Low report,  no recoil to speak of and the people I've talked with say "it's just plain fun."  Not only are there recent production rifles available,  there are some great vintage and classic rifles around that add to its nostalgia.  I'm leaning toward the 1-B in Hornet,  and I'm  definitely going to look for a Bee in possibly a Martini action.

Thanks again for the information and good shooting.

John (Rojo)

[klsm54]

I just bought a #1-S in 218 Bee. I chose the Bee over the Hornet because a lot of what I read, and was told by a few people that have owned both, says that the Bee cases are a little stouter and it is not as critical to reload. Not that I am afraid to try anything new when reloading. Of course I am one of those guys that always wants something nobody else has. I have never owned a 30-30 and don't have a 30-06 in my gun safe. I think either one is a great, fun little cartridge.

[DC]

I know this thread is old my here is my $.02.  I had a rifle built on an old Winchester action in 218 Mashburn Bee and it perfomed beautifully.
Times got tough and I had to sell it but recently picked up a used, (barely), Ruger #1 218 Bee and am having my gunsmith ream the chamber to accomodate the Mashburn.  I have 450 loaded rounds and a bunch of brass.  Yes, Bee's are more expensive but still reasonable at Cabela's.  You also can buy brass which isn't any more expensive that other brass and actually can be made from 25-20 cases.

[gunnut69]

I started my illustrious (notorious) career with a Winchester M43 in 218 Bee. It was a wonderful slayer of varmits big and small. Owned my a good friends father who was unable to shooter larger round, he used it to kill coyotes.. At a much later date a M43 followed me home and it is wonderfully accurate and docile. The Hornet affliction came along later but is very virulent. I now have 3. A Kimber (of Oregon) a M54 Winchester.. and lastly a CZ527. All in 22 Hornet, no 'K' for me.. The K-Hornet lengthens case life or one can partial size and they last quite well. The Hornet brass is thinner than any other centerfire and just won't last as well as the Bee but I DON'T CARE!!! I love the wonderfully efficient Hornet and the Bee. If more power is needed I go to one of my 222Remingtons..another plague in the vault.. I use Lil'Gun in the Hornet especailly with the 35-40 grains bullets.. The 2400 works better with the 40-46 grain weights.. All are poison of small varmits.. This year perhaps a bobcat will cooperate.. I say buy one of each, you would not regret it...