Author Topic: Chronograph alignment  (Read 969 times)

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Offline lilabner

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Chronograph alignment
« on: October 12, 2010, 06:06:29 AM »
I used my new chronograph to measure the velocity of some rifle handloads. I got a different set of readings after adjusting the height level of the chronograph. I did not adjust the rifle rest. The sets were both very consistent but the difference in velocity of the two sets was significant. After thinking things over, I concluded that the higher velocity of the second set was due to the change in chronograph alignment as the bullet was travelling a more direct route across the chronograph. Right? If so, how do I go about setting up the chrongraph so the bullet will travel the shortest route?

Offline drdougrx

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2010, 06:55:30 AM »
I don't think that should matter...so I'm a bit confused.  The only thing I've found was that if I shoot through me screens on a very bright day, the readings are different than when I use a diffuser.  I suspect it has to do with the amount of "glint" generated by light bouncing off the bullet.

Which chronograph do you have???  I use an Oehler and it has a seperate set up for sky screens.
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Offline jhalcott

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 08:55:42 AM »
 The "timer" depends on the distance from the start screen to the stop screen. IF you have the unit canted ,this COULD give a different reading due to the longer distance between screens. I have gotten quite different speeds from the same group of handloadsJUST by changing brass make, or even primer types. SOME loads are NOT very consistent and can be several dozens of feet per second different from shot to shot. I had an extremely accurate (to about 300 yards) 22-250 load that had an extreme spread of 137 fps average for several 5 shot groups. NOT one hole accurate ,but great for ground hogs!

Offline drdougrx

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 09:10:45 AM »
Good point J.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 09:35:17 AM »
Never did it myself, but could you lay a yardstick between the screens, and use that to square up the unit? That would give you a longer sight radius so to speak. Put it the same direction as your shooting, and sight it in with the target you'll be aiming at. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2010, 10:29:42 AM »
I take a peice of string with me , drop a loop over the scope or hammer ( Handi ) and run it through the chrono screens and align the barrel to the screens that way .

Another way is to use a lazer pointer taped to the barrel and a peice of cardboard held behind the back screen to align the two points .

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Offline lilabner

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2010, 12:29:27 PM »
I am fussy about my handloads. Same primers, same cases, thorough case prep, powder charges trickled for consistency. There was a heavy overcast so I did not use the sun screens. The deviation in velocity was small for each set of shots. How about using a level ? If the chronograph is level,the rifle barrel is level and centered over the chrony, transit time across the chronograph should be pretty close to peak velocity. 

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2010, 04:55:47 PM »


I spend a lot of time up front aligning the Chrony up between the bench and the target.  I have a nine inch torpedo level in my range box and I level the unit.  I have always taken care setting the Chrony up but a little additional effort pays off in fewer error messages.  In the long run I get more productive data.

When using diffusers I put a piece of duct tape at each connection point to prevent wind and muzzle blast for blow the diffusers lose.

I have Red duct tape on the wire rods at the six inch mark because I am normally fire rifles with scopes.  Just above the red duct tape I have yellow tape in case of brain fad.  Using the top of the red tape consistently as a stop line allows more consistent spacing of the bullet over the photocell during the shot string.

Another trick is to shoot with the scope set at its lowest power.  The shooter can view the rods and the Word Chrony on the label.  I have a Master Chrony with the remote screen.  The word Chrony is display across the face of the unit.  When properly lined up I can see the rods in the scope and the bottom of the vertical crosshairs crossing the “O” in Chrony.  Normally I shoot at 50 yards and 100 yards when using the Chrony.  I have not tried it when shooting beyond 100-yards.
Using this stock picture you can see the “o” in the center of the face, and you can also see the alignment of the “O” with the front and rear photocells.  The key to data gathering is to have everything lined up before firing.

http://shootingchrony.com/images/Alpha_Master%20Chrony.jpg

From Chrony:
 Shoot through centrer of triangle; 4” above Chrony if open sights; 6” above Chrony if scope sights. Chrony starts to register shots in the first empty string.

Shoot directly over the photocells.

On sunny days, at certain angles, light may reflect from the bullet and cancel the bullet’s shadow. Mark the bullets all the way around with a dark-colored felt marker if this seems to be happening.
I keep a felt tip marker in my range box.

I do not use my Master Chrony all the time so I review the functions before heading to the range.  Admittedly in past years when work interfered with good shooting days my methods were not as refine.  I have learned more about the Master Chrony functions firing a .22LR across the screens. 

I have fired 80-100 rounds across mine the last 10-months.  I have lost track of how many years I have had it, but the number of rounds fired across it this year is on the high side.  A couple of years ago there was a discussion about aging powder lossing its power.  I fired some rounds I had loaded with Surplus 4831 in the early 1970's and it produced expected velocity.

A brother has a number of wildcats and owns a Chrony.  He does not use it, hmmm the truth might hurt or it might not be worth the bother for him.

I thank my wife for the present.
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Offline fastchicken

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2010, 06:43:37 PM »
I don't see how the alignment of the chrony or the height would have any effect on it computing the speed, it could be on it's side or upside down for that matter, as long as your bullet passes over the sensors. Unless I'm wrong [and I am a lot]  they compute the speed by using the time between when the sensor beams are broken, it doesn't know if your bullet passed over the 1st beam at 4" and the 2nd at 6", it just knows the beams were broken, and as long as the distance between the sensors is the same. Just like an auto garage door safety, break the beam at 2" or 10 feet and the door goes back up, it didn't know how close you were. The only way I could see the alignment causing any problems would be if the unit was at such an extreme angle that you would effectively be increasing the distance between the sensors, but you would need such an obvious extreme angle that I don't think most people shoot through it. I take all of about a minute setting up and eyeballing my 2nd hand, at least 20 year old, Shooting Crony F1 on a camera tripod and have never had any problems.

Offline mtbugle

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2010, 07:09:30 PM »
I tend to sight accross the top of the chrony at the target when i have it at right height and placement. This way I know the chrony is parallel to bullet path. Level only works if targets and rifle are at same height from sea level and not all ranges are that level. We have a roof over the firing line here and boy the readings get wierd when the shadow reaches the one end of chrony.
Thanks Don.

Online Land_Owner

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 04:42:18 AM »
I like folks thinking in regard to the distance between sensors as your "deviation" between groups.  My PACT has detents on the base plate such that the sky screen supports will always be the same distance apart after every setup.  

I do not understand how you could sufficiently "tip or cant" a tripod supported set of skyscreens to affect the distance and therefore timing between sensors.  It would be visually obvious to even the most casual observer that the setup was wrong.

Maintaining the same DISTANCE BETWEEN SKYSCREENS is not as obvious if there is no consistent mark.


ALSO, there is a "sweet spot" from 2" to 6" above the sensors (according to PACT) that shooting in that area will offer the most consistency shot to shot and group to group.  I colored my sweet spot on the front legs of the skyscreen supports.  Then I set up the rifle rest so I am shooting through that area.

Someone penned, "There are only two groups of chronograph users: Those that have shot their skyscreen support(s), and those that lied and said they didn't."  So far, I have not and DO NOT want to shoot mine.

Offline drdougrx

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 07:08:03 AM »
LOL Land_Owner!!!   I've shot 3 screens since the 1980's.  On sunday, I'm bringing my set-up to the range and we'll see if my pal Grizzz666 can add a screen to his trophy collection!!   ;)
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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 09:17:50 AM »
The distance between photocells on the Chrony is fixed.
 
As mention before the key is to get the “projectile across both photocells”  Especially when light conditions are not the best the closer to center over the cells positive results are more likely.  Shooting across the photocells at angle in marginal light conditions can result in an Err Message.

I normally shoot at my local club on member’s days and it is rare that at least one Chrony is not setup and on I have seen four or five setup during the same session.  I have not witnessed anybody shooting their Chrony.  But this is the old gray hair group with life experience and time on their hands.  I have notice the range master taking a look at some lineups; the club wants to avoid somebody getting injured by flying parts.

Manual:

First, unfold the unit, making certain that the unit is FULLY OPEN. The base of a tripod may prevent full opening, in which case the chronograph will read higher (faster) than true velocities because the space between the points where the bullet crosses the photocells is shorter than is the distance for which the unit is calibrated.

To safeguard the instrument (and to obtain the best results), the projectile must pass between 6 and 4 inches (15 and 10 cm) directly OVER the Twin Lenses in the black plastic boxes at the front and back of the chronograph. These are the chronograph’s "eyes". Attaching pieces of dark-coloured tape on the guide rods (wire rods) at these heights will help you to aim your shots accurately.

Chrony Cant

On sunny days, the Chrony may be tilted sideways toward the sun, so that the Diffusers are between the sun and the photocells. Be sure that the Chrony unit remains fully open, and that it is perfectly aligned with the target. Using diffusers on cloudy days may shut out too much light.

I take the cautious route.  I hate those Err reading because that means a wasted bullet went down range.  I had two other Chrony users in the early years set the example of what not to do.  Early on one destroyed his Chrony with a center of mass shot from his .44 Magnum, soon to be followed by my brother hitting a rod on his unit.  Both are shooters with many years of experience but the damage can be credited with improper sight alignment. 

Without a doubt lighting is a critical element.  My most successful efforts have been at the low elevation gun club, but it does not realistically reflect the elevation I hunt at.  I like spending time in the high country but thunder clouds and shading from tall conifers limited the periods of good light.  I get more Err messages during the summer when clouds are passing overhead.

Documentation is needed to tell the whole story.  The shoot has more value when you can turn to your records months or years down the road so review earlier results.  I prefer to hunt with a 270 Winchester and my 7MM Remington Magnum is not in the line-up every season, it is good to go back and check past results.  It a couple of cases the results are the same as I good back in 1994 when I fired the rifle across the Chrony. It also debunks the concerns regarding using older powder.

The bullet in the nine rings was the resulted of an intentional low hold to make sure I was on the target.  I was shooting the 160-grain Speer Splitzer at 3007 fps from my 7MM Remington Magnum.


My Ruger 7 Magnum does not like most factory ammunition but surprise, surprise on this day 160-grain low end PMC ammunition produced the best 100-yard factory ammunition group I have obtained from the rifle.  And I have the benefit of collecting the velocity data from the firing.    Velocity was 2847 fps.


Combining the data collected at the range with a ballistic program has benefits.  I have been using Sierra Infinity Six. 
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

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Offline lilabner

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Re: Chronograph alignment
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2010, 06:21:59 AM »
Thanks for the good ideas - particularly the tape on the rods. It should be helpful in levelling  the chrony. I have been using Nosler #6 guide. I can not quite duplicate their velocities  with my .270 WCF but I expect their rifle has a bull
barrel and a tight chamber. They are also likely shooting at controlled temps a tad cooler than the range where I shoot.
I prefer to shoot my hunting ammo in the fall before hunting season.