30-40 Krag Load

[Sheriff Bart]

I am attempting to duplicate the original 30-40 Krag ballistics with a cast bullet.  I have a custom mould and am casting a 220 gr. GC bullet.  I want to push the bullet at 1950fps from a 22" carbine as this is what the old military loads averaged.  None of my loading manuals are any help.
I have staredt working up loads with IMR3031, 4198 and 4227 and am cronographing as I go.  Has any one done this before?  

Any suggestions.  

I want to shoot my Krags with the factory sight setting and minimize bore wear.

[John Traveler]

Sheriff Bart,

I worked up some loads as you described years ago.

No problem getting the velocities you want, but getting your standard carbine sights to hit where aimed is gonna be a bit tricky if you insist on that specific velocity.  I would load for point-of-impact, be happy with approximate velocities.

You can start with loads for the 220 grain jacketed bullet reduced by 15% and work up in 0.5 grain increments.

I used IMR 3031, IMR 4064, and IMR 4895.  They all work well at the medium pressures and velocities you want in that case.

Your desired 220 grain cast bullet .30-40 Krag loads should be listed in any of the older Lyman Reloading manuals, say from the 1960's and 1970's.

Ken Water's loading references should show them too.

I don't have access to my books right now, but will look them up for you if you want.

HTH
John

[Sheriff Bart]

Unfortunately a few years back I let somone talk me out of all my old reloading manuals.  "It's dangerous to use that old data with modern powder"  My new Lyman manual as much as says, "Don't shoot old guns."
I have Waters and my old note books, but in the past I just loaded for accuracy and didn't care about adjusting the sights.  I am trying to match point of impact to 300 yards.  My best hunting load went 1875fps in the carbine, but doesn't hold up past 150 yds.  IMR 4227 is looking good so far, but I think pressures will be running 38,000.  I'll know more when I finish with the crono and accuracy tests.  

Thanks for the tips

Moons

[Nobade]

I have had very good results in my Win 1895 30-40 with the 220gr. Lyman Krag bullet and either 4895, or surplus 7383. You can also use a case full of a slower powder like Accurate 3100 or IMR 7828 for about the same effect. I find if it is possible to work up a full case load with slower powders I usually get better accuracy, but you use more powder and the barrel gets hot faster so it depends on what your intended use is. I wouldn't be using 4227 for that high a speed with so heavy a bullet, you're getting some pretty hefty pressure peaks.

[Chargar]

It is not a great trick to push a 200-220 grain cast GC bullet out of a Krag at 2K velocity. There are any number of powders and bullet combinations that will do that.  Now comes the "but"...but, doing so with good accuracy is a great trick. It can be done, but it takes work.

The problem comes from the rifle itself. The barrel groove diameter can vary greatly. They run from .308 to as much as .315 in the grooves. .310 groove diamter is common.  So, now you have to find a mould that fits the throat and groove of your barrel and many will not. There is also the problem of the nose riding portion of the bullet being the correct size.

Let's add the fact that these rifles have very long throats and when most cast bullets are seated out to touch the rifling, the rounds are too long to feed through the magazine. Seat the bullet deep enough to feed and accuracy suffers.

As far as powders go, I am having great luck with WC872 for full 2K loads and 4759 for 1.5K loads.

I have not tried every mould yet, but thus far I have had the best luck with a 220 grain Hensley and Gibbs design and  good old Lyman 311291. 311291 only weighs 170 grains or so, but does fit the Krag well. I have several of these moulds and one DC cast bullets that run .316 on the body and .302 on the nose (No. 2 alloy).  One of my Krags runs .3095 in the grooves and the other a full .311. I size my bullets in a .311 Lyman die, which in reality sizes .3117. Any bigger than this and I have problems chambering the round without neck turning the cases to give a little clearance.

311291 can be seated with the first lube groove just covered by the neck of the case and this bullet will fill the throat and the body touch the riflings while the nose engraves .001 - 002 on the top of the lands. This bullet so loaded will also feed like glass through the Krag magazine.

For 2K loads I load a 50 grains of WC872 with either bullet. I get 2-2.5 MOA groups with either bullet.

However, 311291 loaded over 16/459 with 2ccs (20 grains) of shotshell buffer on top to form a slightly compressed load will give a full 1.5 MOA with a velocity of 1,600 fps. I am talking ten shot groups all day long. This is all these old girls have to give in terms of accuracy.

So..I have been trying to put together a 220 load to match the old military load, it is easy to match the specs, but gilt edge accuracy has thus far eluded me. I continue to work with new bullets and maybe I will find the magic combination...In the mean time I shoot lots of 311291/16/4759 with outstanding accuracy and no stress on the hundred year old rifles.

Sorry for the long post, but I got carried away..I do so love the 30-40 round the rifles chambered for it.

[waksupi]

I'm also a Krag addict. I've not used the heavier bullets. I have the Lee 170 GCFN bullet that I get about an inch and a half out of at a hundred, loafing along at about 2250 fps. Quite effective on deer.

[Larry Gibson]

Sheriff Bart

"I am attempting to duplicate the original 30-40 Krag ballistics with a cast bullet.  I have a custom mould and am casting a 220 gr. GC bullet.  I want to push the bullet at 1950fps from a 22" carbine as this is what the old military loads averaged".

28-31 gr of 4895 will get you there.  Work up in 1/2 gr increments checking for point of impact to match your point of aim (You will probably be hitting high anyway).  Cast bullets of WW or harder and size "as cast".  Javilina or equivelent lube will work fine.

Larry Gibson