Modified 45-70 brass back to 45-70?

[thejanitor]

Hi everybody- I just got some brass that is stamped 45-70 but someone had tapered the brass to 40 caliber and shortened it .020  I got them just to shoot cast trailboss loads and they will never see a heavier hunting round as these are the only Winchester 45-70 brass we have. I figured I would run them through the die and re- expand them with the expander ball..... Are you seeing where I am going? I had no idea a straight walled case die didn't have an expander ball. So I am wondering what would be the best or only way that I can fire form these back to the original 45-70 chamber size? They appear to be brand new brass.
I had a suggestion for cream of wheat and parafin to fire form them, but he said to come ask all of you.
So I need to know what would be the best way to do it without ruining the new (used) barrel or myself.
The brass was given to me for the price of shipping, so throwing them IS an option with little money lost. So Please feel free to chime in with something you have done.
In all honesty I would need the cream of wheat idea explained as well.  Thanks,  thejanitor

[tacklebury]

Sounds like they might have made 40-65 gov. ammo using the .45-70 cases.  Not sure if you'd need to anneal the cases to expand it that far, but you might be able to bell the mouth with a plumb-bob or if you have a lee loader for .45 colt it has a flaring tool that could be tapped in far enough to allow the expander die to reshape it.  Just thoughts on what I'd try with what I have onhand. 

[jedman]

      You didnt say how many of these cases you have ?  I would think the value of new brass would be in the 40 to .50 cent a piece range.  Giving your situation a little thought , unless you have a inside expander of some sort to restore the diameter of the case to original; or slightly larger, so it can then be resized to 45-70 specs. I would toss it or give it to someone who had a use for it ?  If you consider the cost of a powder charge, primer, cream of wheat, and your time and effort to have a case that is stretched and weakended compared to new brass, I dont think it's worth the bother.  Just my 2 cents.    Jedman

[thejanitor]

I only have 18, I ruined 2 trying to "bell" them. The guy sent them to me not sure I could use them or not. I just thought I had a solution, but after trying them and realizing there is no expander ball, I was stumped.
I will wait a while before getting rid of them, but none of my other brass is here yet, so I was anxious to shoot the gun. But I can wait until Tuesday, (3days) And then take the new barrel out to plink. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. thejanitor

[Lloyd Smale]

id toss them

[shot1]

I would give them to someone that has a 40-65 caliber rifle. Even if you did get them expanded back out they probably would be too short to get a crimp on the bullet properly.

[bilmac]

You do have an expander, it's just in a seperate die. With straight wall cases it is impossible to put it in the sizing die. It should be in the die that punches the primers. Probably depends on how it is shaped whether you can expand a 40 cal to 45. I would think that fireforming would open the neck enough that you could then run them over your expander ball. I expect you will then have to trim a hair because the mouths will be out of square.

I wouldn't worry much about whether it is economic or not, this is about keeping your hands busy and becoming a more knowledgable reloader is it not? True the cases won't work the same as new brass, you will just have to adjust your crimping die is all. I would use them for special loads. I have made shotshell loads for my 45-70, and cases like these would work fine.

[thejanitor]

Ok here is what I did, Plumb bob type expander out in the garage w/ light hammer taps on the bench to flare the end, (split one.)
Then I took and set the 44 mag flare/mouth expander die and set it and put plenty of mica on the cases on two of these the edge was too flared and the edge folded over (ruining two more)
Primed the cases, put in a lighter than the usual Trail boss load we shoot because there is still a slight hour glass shape to the case between the base of the bullet and the base of the case thus reducing volume. Then after the bullet was set the mouth was too wide to chamber so I pressed it back just into the bottom of the 44 mag die to "crimp" the mouth a little not a true 45-70 crimp, just forced the brass back in due to not fitting easily back into the die. but now the brass where the bullet is is larger than the chamber and not even..... So I removed the depriming pin from the 45-70 resizing die and "sized" the loaded cartridge. After all this they chamber fine. So Monday I should be able to fire form them and see how many crack from all the stress I put them through. But Like was stated above it was a fun project that made me scratch my head a couple times.  And yes the brass does have a crooked edge on several and will need trimmed after forming.
Thank you for all the input,   thejanitor

[thejanitor]

Today I shot them and they formed great. The only problem I have is they are all crooked on the case mouth and my trimmer doesn't go big enough diameter wise to trim them back- to true. I think a friend has a trimmer big enough, I will just have to wait a few days to finish this project up. But all the other brass I traded/bought should be here in the next couple days taking the pressure off of these poor lowly few. 
Once I get the non altered brass then I can get down to business shooting and working groups with heavy hunting loads for the deer season. Only a couple weeks away. Yahooo
thejanitor

[quickdtoo]

You'll get your Starline brass tomorrow! 

Tim

[thejanitor]

Thanks Quick! I have kept distracted with the other brass but am excited to get the hotter loads worked up and dialed in. Won't be long and there will be deer hangin...
thejanitor