DRT

[HGunner]

One of the most frustrating things I read on the internet is guys touting their hunting guns and loads and talking about how most of the deer they shoot are "DRT" which I assume means down or dead right there.  I have now taken around 15 big game animals with 44 mag and 454 (medium loads) and the only animals I have seen fall were hit in the spine.  I don't really like these hits as I have to approach a terrified animal and shoot it again.  My best shots are generally low in the front of the chest and result in animals down and out in less than 50 yards.  Are any of you guys really having deer drop at the shot from chest hits? What's your secret?  I'd love to hear some details as quick clean kills is what I strive for -- out of respect for the animal and for improved venison quality.


Thanks,
HGunner

[Larry Gibson]

"My best shots are generally low in the front of the chest and result in animals down and out in less than 50 yards."
 
+1. That shot, if broadside to slightly raking will also take out one or both front legs.  I also prefer HP'd cast or jacketed bullets that expand properly to increase the terminal effect.  When using those with the .357, .41 and .44 Magnums I've not had a deer go much more than 30 yards before going down.
 
Larry Gibson

[SHOOTALL]

Consideration should be given to the size of the deer that are bang flop . Here in Va some areas have small deer and a bang flop is asmost any hit up front. Other deer are larger and take/carry lead much better.

[DANNY-L]

I have shot a lot of deer with quite a few different rifles,muzzle loaders,bow and my contender always going for both lungs and I can honestly say the only ones I have had drt were all shot with my handi rifle in 22 hornet with a 45gr sp I know it sounds like bs but from atleast 15 taken all but 2-3 dropped and stayed right there,the others dropped under 75yds. (edit) with the hornet all shots were within 75yds and the deer was totally relaxed.

[tacklebury]

I disagree.  DRT for me means I didn't have to track it or wonder where it went.  If a deer takes 3 leaps and piles up.  Good enough.    If I have to track across our woods, not DRT.  hehe  I should add that this year the 300 gr. XTP magnum .45 Colt load that hit my 4 point put him down in 21 yards.  Good enough for me. 

[Ladobe]

DRT depends on the circumstances, but it is certainly possible with handguns same as with any other appropriate "tool".   Size of animal, a visible kill zone with angle, range, stationary/walking/running, temperament, cartridge/load, the shooters experiance/confidence/ability with "that" tool so shot placement, and on and on.   
 
I've killed a ton of game with handguns from the late 50's (mostly P&V and cook pot fodder with revolvers/22 auto pistols); everything up to big game from the mid 60's (with revolvers and specialty handguns).   Were they all DRT?   Because I used handguns for so many species the numbers depend which species from small diggers to elk, but...   I have to say not even close to all, but from almost all to quite a few were by species.   Some "dead" RT, some only "down" RT no matter what species.   But all those hit were harvested if at all possible no matter how much extra effort it took.   Some took a finishing shot and some didn't, some only made it a relatively sort distance away, some took tracking to find, a couple long tracking.   I was raised by the standard that its all about ethics when hunting, your respect for the game itself and any you do chose to kill to do it as humanely as possible.    Means I feel that what some might consider just lowly vermon still deserves a humane kill just as much as a big game animal does.   So to me anyway that dictates taking the shots you are confident you can make, being willing to pass the iffy to very iffy ones where a poor hit can mean lost game that will probably suffer a slow death.   Anybody that says they haven't made a bad shot hunting where they hit poorly, no matter how much experience they have is not being honest with themselves, or others.  I have, quite a few by some standards, not so many if I consider the number of years and number of shots fired handgun hunting.   
 
But I do have a dark side... and this is not an excuse for it.   I give some leeway to hunting ethics when doing long range varmint hunting, simply because long experience doing it suggests it will either be a DRT hit or a clean miss "almost" all of the time.   I also felt I had to give some leeway when doing ADC for landowners just for the use of their land, never for a fee.  With most of them it's all about the numbers to retain their ADC, save them whatever damage is being caused, their expense for and even more collateral damage to other species if they have to poison.   So if I felt confident I had a very good chance of connecting with a solid hit, even if it meant follows or tracking, I would take the shot.   I take the plunge for the LR varmints and ADC knowing I will almost always be able to finish the job if needed with an immediate followup, where as with a poor hit on game animals often you may not get that opportunity immediately, or not at all.    So me bad for sure in some P&V situations, but I always tried to be 100% ethical in all others.  Over all those years it mattered not what others thought of my choice or the reasons why.  Still doesn't, I chose my path, live with it just fine because it saved the landowners (and those that rely on their products) money, and even more important to me personally saved other species from the poison.
 
FWIW-YMMV

[Lloyd Smale]

ive had some instant put downs with handguns using cast bullets. the trick is to shoot them right through both shoulders. Break both front sholders and they can go nowhere. Other then that it takes a central nervous system hit to drop an animal.

[murphdog]

My experience agrees with Lloyd.  Takes bone or brain (or spine) to get an instant drop.  (Won't enter the argument on what DRT really means.)  Try this sometime.  Hold your breath, and run as far as you can without taking in fresh oxygen.  Thats what game does with a heart/lung shot, usually about 30-40 yards.  Of course, sometimes they don't read the rule books. 

[Doe]

I agree with some of the guys, DRT mean you don't have to tract it,  not all animal will react the same when hit buy a bullet, just like bad guys  .  That being said, i've only had 2 deer DRT in my life time, none buy a hand gun yet! 

[Ladobe]

I can't agree at all, doesn't matter whether you consider "DRT" dead or just down right there.   I have experienced just the opposite many times even when "vitals" are not hit... no leg(s) broken, brain/spine not hit, and especially when only the heart or lungs are hit.   While a brain/spine hit is pretty decisive, both shoulders maybe, many animals can still run with a broken leg, and with a lung or even heart shot.   Even without a hit to any of those vitals hydrostatic shock can completely and immediately incapacitate an animal and keep it "down" RT unable to run.   Whether it immediately kills it or not it still incapacitates faster than leg, lung, heart damage or blood loss.   HS is more commonly seen with small bullets driven fast where they can exert more HS than large bullets driven slow.   HS is not speculation, it is a proven fact. 
 
 

[murphdog]

I have to admit that Ladobe is right.  A sudden drop in blood pressure can cause fairly rapid unconciousness, and would put an animal down fairly quickly.  Most of my experience is with bullets at or near handgun velocity, and I've never had an instant drop with heart/lung shots.  High velocity bullets may react differently. 

[Ladobe]

Hydrostatic shock impairs and interupts the signals for both voluntary and involuntary motor functions... muscle control to flee, respiration, the heart, and other bodily functions.   Sometimes enough so to kill quite quickly, sometimes to disable until tissue damage/blood loss causes death, and I suppose sometimes with a remote hit just long enough for the shooter to finish with follow up.   Whether it be from a short or long arm is not relative except within themselves.   Either is capable of inducing HS.
 
However, some rambling to get to a point about handgun hunting that I feel is very noteworthy...
 
By design with handguns especially, some action types are far less efficient than others.   In that respect revolvers the least efficient, and they are even further handicapped by the cartridges traditionally chambered in them.   For the most part they have to rely on perfect shot placement, bone crunching wound channels, and the hunting skills of the shooter   On the other end the specialty handguns are far more efficient, really amount to being short rifles that can handle just about any cartridge a rifle can, do not give up much ballistically to the rifles and can impact serious HS.  So they often can make up for some lack of shooting and hunting skills of a handgun hunter.
 
That point I was getting to... anyone who can consistently take game humanely with a revolver is the quintessential firearm hunter.   They must rely on all their skills as hunters heavily, not just on the firearm to make up for the lack of it.   IMO makes them worthy of the respect from ALL other firearm hunters.   
 
It took me the better part of a lifetime to come full circle... the 50  years I actively hunted spot and stock.   I started with old traditional lever, single-shot, pump rifles and long bows on the ranch as a very young lad.   About ten years later added traditional revolvers and specialty handguns... another five or so later traditional muzzle loaders, far more modern rifles and shooting wildcat catridges in both handguns and rifles was added.   Those that amounted to being laser guided missile launchers were very efficient, were always very deadly and at very extended ranges.   But in time they became boring, just too easy, and they took away from the challenge and satisfaction of pitting personal hunting skills one on one with game.   All my last hunts before the health issues ended my hunting were for predators and varmints, with small bore traditional muzzleloading rifles and pistols, and revolvers.   They were among the most memorable and satisfying of my life, and the perfect closure to something I enjoyed so much.     So carry on revolver hunters, my hats off to you.