38-55 and IMR-4227

[Blackhawker]

Has anyone ever tried IMR-4227 in a 38-55 with gas checked cast bullets before?  My latest Lyman book shows IMR-4227 in the 375 Winchester but not the 38-55, yet there are near identical loads (close) for both calibers using other powders such as IMR-4198 and RX-7. 

I might work up some loads tonight using the 4227 using the 375 Win data as a guideline and thought I'd ask if anyone here has ever tried it. 

By the way, my 38-55's are quite modern firearms and strong enough to handle such loads.

[petemi]

Just last night, I got some info from one of the members on IMR4227 in the .38-55, but it was for 213 gr. and 265 gr. bonded bullets.  The poop I got was 213 gr. 17.0 - 19.0, the 265 gr. was 21.0 -23.0.  I think I read here also, a short time ago, that 4227 has a filler that leaves residue.  I'm loading some today, and I think I'll be be useing IMR4198.  Tim prefers RL7, but I can't get it locally.....not now, in any event.

Pete

[Blackhawker]

Hey, great info Pete!
I use IMR-4227 in my 30 carbine loads and I just set up some for my newly acquired 357 mag.  I've never seen any kind of reside in my 30 carbine.   
I've decided to use the data shown for the 375 Winchester in the Lyman 49th book and alter it a little.  So far I've loaded 22 grains and 23.5 grains under a Lyman 264 grain FPGC (actual measured weight - 282 grains).  I guess I'll see what I get.  These seem to be in line with what you listed so I guess I'll be OK.  I compared it's data to the IMR-4198 data on both the 375 and the 38-55 data shown in the 49th manual.  I hope to make it to the range within the next week so I'll report what I get.  I'm testing the loads in both my Target Classic and my 20" Thompson Contender.  I think you have one of those stumpy barrels like Tim has, if I'm correct.    Maybe my results with the Thompson will correlate with your shorter barrel too. 

By the way, I use IMR 3031 with good results.  I also have used IMR-4198 and 2400 with similarly good results and the loads seem a little more stout as well.  I hate publicly posting loads but if you want to know what I use, PM me and I'll give you some data.

I almost bought some RL7 the other day as I've seen that Tim gets good results with it.  That will be next on my list to try. 
Thanks for the info Pete!
Chris

[petemi]

Chris, it is the "same stumpy barrel Tim has"  18 inch.  He made both of them.  I'm going to the reloading room now to make a decision on which load to try first and get started on it.  I love this little rifle and can't wait to get it barking.  It's on a BC Carbine stock.

I'll load, shoot, and chrony them and let you know what I find.

There's two shops about 20 miles apart around Sault Ste. Marie, MI that may have RL7.  The next time I'm over that way (75 miles) I'm gonna grab it if they have it.

I just bought 100 new Win short cases from frgerald, and they should be here before too long.  The longs, according to Tim, will probably work better in my barrel, but I can't fault the performance of .38s and .357s out of my Maxi, so we'll see.  The little jump to the rifling may not be a big deal.

Pete

[Blackhawker]

I use the shorter version brass in my 38-55's.  I've been told that the longer will give me more powder capacity with the IMR-3031.  My loads are nearly compressed as it is and they're nowhere near some of the listings in the load books.  I could seat the bullet out on a lube groove but then I'd be jamming the bullet into the lands and wouldn't be able to chamber them all the way....at least in my Target Classic.  I don't have a chrony but my guess is that I'm pushing those 282 grain bullets around 1500 fps.  Not near what Tim gets with his but I think he shoots the 250 grainers. 

If you're heading off to load, you might try some 2400 if you've got any.  I've had some good luck with that too.  Not too much published data on that but for starters, there is an article on the 38-55 called the Brimstone Gazzette.  They've got some interesting things to say about bullet size and powder charges etc.  Good reading for the 38-55 loader. 

Link:  http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/gazette/jan06.html

Chris

[Blackhawker]

Range Report:
OK, I took my Thompson Contender 38-55 (20" bull barrel) to the range on Friday and tried some test loads which included IMR-4227.  At 75 yards using a Lyman 264 grain FPGC (actual measured weight: 282 grains) .376" over 22.0 grains of IMR-4227, I put ten rounds into 2.3 inches.  Not the best but not too bad either.  Using 23.5 grains of 4227, I couldn't keep the group under 4.0 inches with one flyer out at 6.5 inches.

I didn't try small incremental loads, unfortunately.  Really, I just wanted to see what could be done using the powder, if anything at all.  I didn't chronograph the loads but I can say that they felt quite a bit weaker than my usual load using  IMR-3031.  I probalby won't use the powder since it doesn't seem to be an accurate power at higher velocities (at least in my rifle) but it can be promising if one wants to use IMR-4227 for target loads.