Super RedHawk: what gunsmith work to do?

[mattmillerrx]

If this is not the right place, I can move it over to DA revolver forum.  I have had this gun (44 mag) for over a year now and played with several loads and have done a trigger job on it myself.  The trigger job improved things greatly. It appears to shoot the best with full house 44 mag loads.  The problem is I don't shoot them as well as I would like to. 
 
Which brings me to the reason for this post.  I want to try either porting or have a muzzle brake added to the gun.  I will not be taking this on myself.  So, please help me understand which would be better for this gun and if this is something my local smith can take on or should go to a Super Redhawk specialist?  What would be reasonable cost range for this work--I will get some quotes first.

One concern I have, is how badly it will blacken my scope (how quickly and how easily it will clean off).

Since is it going in to the smith anyway, what else should I do to improve this gun (forcing cone work???)? 

[gunnut69]

Ported barrels as well as brakes create tremendous blast and in covered environments are devastating. Brakes are likely the most effective as they also added weight to the muzzle to help control flip. Ports create a much slimmer profile and retain the look of the unmodified gun. I, personally hate both.. If one doesn't like the recoil try to find out why. Sometimes better ear protection or padded gloves are the answer and I usually use Thinsulate insulated gloves when shooting. The 44 mag in a fairly large pistol is not a bad kicker although in lighter pieces such as the M29 S&W it can get bothersome. I really don't like the Redhawk grip frame, it just doesn't feel comfortable to me.. Perhaps custom grips would help? If you just must have one or the other I'd vote for porting. At least it doesn't hang more out on the end of the weapon.

[mcwoodduck]

Blacking the scope is not a problem.
Simply go to any local camera store and get a clear filter that is the same size as your scope.
You know the flip open scope covers?
They hold the filter in place perfectly.
Remove flip open scope cover, remove filter, wash filter, dry filter replace.
They make many different filters a clear sun filter will work.  And is cheap.
Just rip off the cover part.

[Blackhawker]

In addition to what gunnut69 said about gloves; when I first bought my 45 Colt Blackhawk and loaded it up with heavy loads, it took my some time to get accustomed to the recoil.  Most people I know don't like shooting it because it's pretty violent.  Anyway, when I first started shooting the heavy loads, I decided to buy some gloves as I didn't want to change the look and feel of the single action grip.  I found that soft and supple leather wrestling or weight lifting gloves work the best.  I've bought some shooting gloves and they were awful.  Look around for the right gloves...it'll pay off.  Eventually you'll learn to deal with the recoil and you won't need the gloves anymore.  The .44 is not that bad of a recoiler, especially from a large revolver as a Super Redhawk.  You should come to adjust to it's recoil over time as opposed to cutting up your revolver.  

[mattmillerrx]

Gunnut, I have hogue grips on it--forget the name but seems like they are called magnum tamer.  It does help with the felt recoil--I also use a padded glove some when shooting volume.

mcwoodduck, that is a great tip.

I am looking to help control the muzzle rise/flip to help with consistency and hopefully improve accuracy and increase the distance I can shoot the gun accurately.

[Frank46]

I have a regular redhawk also in 44 magnum. Factory grips allowed the trigger guard to hammer my finger like no other revolver I had fired. Stuck on a set of pachmayer deaccelerator grips and was easier to shoot. Just watch out for that little pin thats inside the frame. Used I think to help do something with it but cannot remember. Frank

[Blackhawker]

Gunnut, I have hogue grips on it--forget the name but seems like they are called magnum tamer.  It does help with the felt recoil--I also use a padded glove some when shooting volume.

mcwoodduck, that is a great tip.

I am looking to help control the muzzle rise/flip to help with consistency and hopefully improve accuracy and increase the distance I can shoot the gun accurately.

The muzzle will flip no matter what you do.  Yes, porting the barrel will help some but what it sounds like to me is the problem of the shooter and not the revolver. (I don't mean that personally)  How many times do we see a brand new large framed, heavy caliber revolver sitting on the shelf that had 20 or 50 rounds fired through it and then the owner gets rid of it?  Generally it's because the owner didn't take the time to adjust to a heavy recoiling gun.  Many times the gun is altered or just sold and a lot of money (and time) is lost in either scenario. 

Muzzle flip or not, the revolver will shoot as accurately as it can, it's the shooter that adds any inaccuracies.  It sounds to me like you just need some time to become accustomed to the recoil. Instead of carving up the revolver or doing any serious modifications, perhaps you might start out with some light loads.  Maybe even .44 specials and then work your way up.  Another thing to keep in mind is bullet weight.  In general, lighter bullets give less felt recoil or muzzle flip.  Perhaps load some light loads with lighter weight bullets. The revolver will always do it's part for you, the key is for the shooter to become accustom to the recoil.  You can do it, it just takes some time!

[mattmillerrx]

So what you guys are saying is porting or muzzel breaks are of no help.  I have a taurus that is ported and feel it does make a difference.  For this gun, I thought a muzzle break might be a better option. And was seeking more info on this.  Before getting the taurus I was not a fan of porting either, but based most of it on comments like these, I had read online. I do appreciate the comments, and I do need to work on my shooting--but have improved greatly over the past few years.  I shoot a couple of times a month, and thought this might help.

[Blackhawker]

So what you guys are saying is porting or muzzel breaks are of no help. 

Nope, I didn't say a muzzle brake won't help.  I just think that one can spend a lot of unnecessary money and time on things that really aren't needed.  You may lose money on the sale of the revolver later too...hard to say, some find a port OK, some don't.  If you really want it, get it.  I'm just saying that you can work around it. 

[GRIMJIM]

I had excellent results from magnaport. They removed the front sight and cut the barrel, threaded it and installed a brake and reinstalled the front sight behind the brake, recut the forcing cone, numbered the cylinders, action job and ground off the safety warning on the barrel. It is a very sweet shooting .44 mag.

I think if I ranked the work in order of importance it would be:
1-action job
2-forcing cone
3-brake
4-remove warning
5-number cylinders

I did this work more because I wanted to more than I needed to. The brake does help with the muzzle flip, more so than porting in my opinion. But the main thing is the trigger job. I think if you're sending it in that would be where i would start, the rest is nice if you can afford to have it done.

[mattmillerrx]

Lots of good Ideas there.  I had not thought about taking the warning off--That would be nice.

I am curious, about the cutting down of the barrel.  How much needs to be removed?  I have the 7.5 in barrel and would like to add length in the total including the break.  Was yours a 7.5 or a 9 in barrel before the start?  I also have mine scoped, so will have to be careful of how far back they move the front sight.  Probably wont be a problem, I have a couple of inches to play with.

I did a trigger job myself on the gun, but only changed the springs.  I figured some stone work would be needed but everything already looked good (no burs, rubbing parts). All that is left in mine is a very small amount of creep, but still a good trigger.  Did they get the creep out of yours?  I have mine at a point I am shooting it in double action some at the range for fun.

I do like those grips to--Who is the maker? (I am somewhat of a grip snob) and would like to get the rubber off this gun--but at the time I was just looking to loose the factory grips and the Hogue is what the local store sold.

What kind of groups are your getting after the work was done vs before?

Is this a hunting handgun for you or a target one?

[GRIMJIM]

It was a 9" barrel before and is still 9" with the brake installed. I believe the brake is 1 1/2". I think they took off 1 1/2" maybe minus threads but I didn't want to have to buy new holsters. I'm sure they can just thread the existing barrel and add the brake.

If you go to magnaport's website they have pricing there. The turnaround was a lot quicker than they said it would be too. I guess they padded the time just in case but it was a nice surprise to get it sooner.

It's my main deer hunting handgun.

No creep and breaks very crisp. I'm not sure what the pull is though. I didn't really do a before and after test. I know I shot it before and after I just don't remember what the difference was. I know it is a lot more pleasant to shoot.

I made the grips myself out of purple heart and leopard wood with a boiled linseed oil finish.

[clodbuster]

Grimjim  Man that is one spiffy hawk!

[SHOOTALL]

You might want to get some lazer grips and see what you are doing when you pull the trigger . You may have a flinch , if so you can over come it. Dry fire it to see . Or have a friend load your gun and watch to see if you flinch . It happens to most at some point and it has to be delt with . You can't buy a fix. Hey you might just be squeezing the grip to tight . I have had two ported guns and have no plans for any more they are way to loud .

[Blackhawker]

You may have a flinch , if so you can over come it. Dry fire it to see . Or have a friend load your gun and watch to see if you flinch . It happens to most at some point and it has to be delt with . You can't buy a fix.

Shootall has a very good point and I was going to suggest this a while back.  Load your revolver with four live rounds and two spent cases in random positions.  Spin the cylinder, don't look, lock it up and then shoot it.  Shoot it in single action mode and watch the way you shoot.  You'll be surprised how many experienced shooters will flinch on an unknowing empty chamber of a big bore handgun.  Keep practicing this until you no longer flinch.  This can actually take years for some shooters to fix but doing this is the only way to prove to yourself that you're a "flincher" and it's NOT the gun with the problem.  You might try this first with light loads (as I suggested earlier) or maybe even some .44 specials.  

As Shootall said, you can't BUY a fix for bad shooting techniques and habits, you only can change them for the better.  Practice makes perfect!

[SHOOTALL]

And don't ask how i know this ! 

[Blackhawker]

And don't ask how i know this !  

We've all been there.  It took me a while to stop after I bought my first 45 Colt Blackhawk and loaded it up with dynamite loads.  

[SHOOTALL]

been there

[GRIMJIM]

Yep.

[gunnut69]

Hey guys remember only perfect practice makes perfect. Anything less just makes noise or may even worsen the problem.. And again I'll say.- I hate brakes/ports.. If there is a medical neccessity, fine but otherwise they are way too loud and I need to keep all the hearing I have left!!

[mattmillerrx]

You guys have convinced me not to brake.  I did have some luck over the weekend with a load.  It did not meet my goal of 2 inches at 100 but was getting close.  I set this goal after shooting some factory leverevolution that was just over that mark. I see they have released the LE powder now- think I will try some when I can find it.

[SHOOTALL]

If you get that group please post the data as not many 44 mag rifles with a scope will do that. Its a big slow bullet and every round would need to pass bench rest standards . I would suggest you use the same chamber in the cyl. when shooting for that tight of group as just the difference in the way the gun locks up and indexes the cyl to bore could cause your group to open. A lot of IHMSA shooters would mark the chamber of their revolver that shot the worst so as not to use it. AND yes it was aginst the rules to do so  .
Good luck !

BTW do you profile crimp ? Of all the things I have done trimming and then using a good tight profile crimp tightened the group the most. Often it can be the ammo and not the gun .
Shooter , gun and ammo must all be their best.

[Blackhawker]

You guys have convinced me not to brake.

Congrats!  With the money you saved on porting, you can buy some ammo or maybe even a new loader!   

I did have some luck over the weekend with a load.  It did not meet my goal of 2 inches at 100 but was getting close.

Hey, that's pretty good shoot'n for someone that was complaining about not being able to shoot well with full house loads and was thinking of porting etc!   

[mattmillerrx]

Shootall, you will have to define profile crimp.  I have my die set to crimp to the front edge of the groove.  And just tight enough to see the case tip into that groove and no more.  I spend more time on setting the crimp were I want than any other step.  I do have one off chamber and only load 5.  I was missunderstood-my complaint was not shooting as well as I wanted to.  Should have left the full house laods out, although that is what I am trying to shoot well.  Never can seem to explain what I mean. I always get frustrated when I can't get people to understand.  Glad we are on the same page now.

[SHOOTALL]

I crimp in a seperate operation . I use a redding profile crimp die , i have tried others but find the redding the best for stright walled cart. What it does is keep the mouth of the brass paraell to the bullet and swages it into the crimp ring on the bullet. You can set it so you lock the bullet in place by nosing the face of the brass up to the front of the crimp ring and the bullet won't move during recoil. The crimp - seating die rolls the crimp in .
They run about 22 dollars .
If you seat and crimp in one operation the crimp starts as the bullet is moving , not a good way to achieve tight groups IMHO. If a 2 inch group at 100 yards is your goal you may wish to try it , its about the cost of a pound of powder.
Another trick is to use a more powerful rifle scope while testing to get a better sight picture , just don't crowd it  . Your goal is do able with some fine tuning.
 I once saw a guy shoot the turkey head of a IMHSA target 10 times with open sights . That was at 150 meters maybe a 2.5 inch target. He may have been shooting a 357 super mag not sure.

It would be nice to hear how it goes .

[mattmillerrx]

Thanks Shootall, I may have to give on one a try.  I am alway experimenting--might have to order one.

[SHOOTALL]

You may already do this but if you trim then seat bullets with out crimping then back off or remove the seater you can use you reg. die to crimp then. You may see improvement doing this. It is not a profile crimp but a better job.