Whats's the difference between 45 Colt and Long Colt?

[hazmt]

I was recently looking through a reloading catalogue and noticed that Remington specifies both 45 Colt and 45 Long Colt brass. Since my Dad uses a Single action revolver and Lever action chambered for the 45 Long Colt, I was thinking about reloading some ammo for him. Are these the same catridge, interchangeable? or is the 45 Long colt a totally different beast. Most of my reloading centers on shotshells and rifle since my pistol ammo is very inexpensive. Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks,

Haz

[Buford]

I will try to help you out on this one.  I am sure that someone out there will point out the exceptions.

The ".45 Colt" is the big rimmed revolver cartridge - it is commonly referred to as the "Long Colt"  - folks will quickly point out there is no such thing as a "long Colt", however, I have seen factory cartridge boxes marked that way.

The other ".45" is the .45ACP - the ACP stands for "automatic Colt pistol".

For all practical purposes, those are the two most common .45's you'll run into - as a reminder the ".45 Colt" has a rim, the ".45ACP" is rimless.

[Dave in WV]

The .45 Colt and .45 LC are the same cartridge. The LC came from a time in the 1800s when Colt and S&W revolvers were both issued. The S&W used a shorter cartridge. The "LC" was used to distinguish between the two.

[hazmt]

I thought they were the same cartridge, but Natchez had 2 different listings in their catalogue for brass. One was 45 colt and the other 45 long colt. Must have been a typo...

I think I will go with the Starline brass however. This seems to be the best priced brass that I've found. Anyone here reload this caliber? As I can't slug the bores on my Pop's guns (this is a surprise gift), I was thinking of using a .451-.452 round nosed or Flat point cast lead slug.  What weight bullets do you use?

Thanks again for all the help.

Haz

[Flint]

As Dave said, the Army issued ammunition that would fit the S&W Schofield, which S&W called 45 Smith & Wesson or 45 Schofield, the Army called it 45 Short Colt, so the standard Colt round was called the 45 Long Colt. The Schofield actually has a larger rim.  The brass is sold as 45LC or 45Colt depending on the whim of the maker.  I have Starline, R-P, W-W, Winchester and Federal brass and they all call it 45 Colt on the headstamp.

[Donna]

Hello hazmt,

if your going to cast lead bullets go with the .452". A lot of the older firearms were made for .452" diameter cast lead bullets and if it is .451" with the cast soft lead bullet it will do no harm to the barrel just the accuracy. But Talk to thoughs casters on the cast bullet forum they can give you a lot better info. on casting.
 :wink:
Donna

[unspellable]

There is a lot of confusion about this, a lot of it from people who ought to know better.

The first cartridge is the 45 Colt adopted by the US Army circa 1873 for use in the Colt SSA.

The second cartridge is the 45 Smith & Wesson intended for the S&W Schofield revolver which the Army also adopted.  This cartridge has a shorter case than the 45 Colt and a wider rim for the star extractor.  (The 45 Colt is really semi-rimmed.)  Only three of these at a time will chamber in the Colt SAA due to the wider rim.

The third cartridge is the 45 Short Colt.  This is the 45 S&W with a narrow rim like the 45 Colt so that it may be used in both the SAA & the Schoefiled.  This at the expense of a reduced load in the SAA and the risk of jamming under the extractor in the S&W.

The fourth cartridge is the 1909 Colt 45.  The case is .010" longer than the 45 Colt, it has a wide rim like the 45 S&W and was adopted by the Army for use in the Colt New Service Model of 1909.  It was loaded with a 300 grain bullet.  At the time of its adoption it was viewed as a stop gap between the 38 Long Colt Army round and a 45 caliber self loader of some yet to be determined specification.  The 1909 New Service is not chambered for the 45 Colt although it is intended to accept the cartridge in a pinch.  It will shoot low using them.  The 1909 cartridge will not chamber in a SAA with proper chamber diminsions.  If the chamber is a bit long you can still only put three in due to the wide rim.

At this point experimental versions of the yet to be finalized and named 45 ACP appear.  One of these was the 45 Luger using Frankford Arsenal bullets and DWM cases.

Then the 45 ACP was finalized and adopted by the US Army.

Next the 45 Auto Rimmed, a rimmed version of the 45 ACP for use in revolvers.

Then a 45 Winchester Magnum, a stretched version of the 45 ACP that never really caught on.

Last, but far from least, the 454 Casull.

There was never a cartridge properly called the 45 Long Colt although the term was first applied in the late 19th Century to distinguish it from the 45 Short Colt.  (Not from the 45 S&W as every one supposes.)

There was also a 455 Colt cartridge, a civilan version of the military 455 Webley.  It was once quite popular in Canada and occasionally seen in the US.  Enough so that I bought a good many boxes of it for my Webley and my S&W.  The Colt New Service and the S&W N frame were both chambered for this round, both for sale to the British military and for civilian sale in the US and Canada.  The RCMP carried them at one time.

As a final note, when I go to the gun show and pick up a piece of modern brass headstamped 45 Schoefield, I find that it has been manufactured to 45 Short Colt diminsions with a narrow rim.