Recoil springs standard coil vs variable coiled recoil springs???

[1911crazy]

Does anyone use the variable coiled recoil spring in there 1911?  Is there a difference in performance or reduced recoil thats noticable over the standard recoil springs?

standard coiled recoil spring has evenly wound coils end to end.

variable recoil spring has two different designs one can be wound tighter on one end, while the other is wound tighter on both ends with wider gaps between the winds in the center section of the variable recoil spring.

Is one recoil spring better over the other?

[gray-wolf]

The 1911 in 45 ACP was made to run a 16# recoil spring and a 23# main spring.
 IMHO variable rate springs are a problem in the making.   There are very special reasons for changing the spring rate. Reasons that are specific to what you are trying to achieve.  To just do it without being able to present a valid reason is nonsense, and poking a stick at a sleeping dog.
  If your pistol will not run well with standard ammo and a 16# spring there is something wrong ( fix it )
A standard set up should function even with mild target loads  ( within reason ) If you need to soften the recoil
use lighter loads.  
  You can reduce felt recoil or should I say perceived recoil by changing your firing pin stop, if you know what that is.  It's the little plate that snaps over the firing pin to hold it and the extractor in place.
  Notice how the bottom of it is way rounded.  The original was almost square at the bottom and not rounded.
Just had a .0625 small radius.  This retarded the slide movement just ever so slightly keeping the slide closed a little longer.  This greatly reduces felt recoil and allows for faster back on target.  
  This was changed early on when the troops were on Horse back.  Reason for this was it makes the slide just a little harder to bring back.  The troops were mandated to carry condition 3--full mag empty chamber.
  They complained that on Horse back it was to hard to rack while ridding.  So the rounded bottom was used and seems to Be still used today.  It requires a new slide slop to be fitted--one that stars a little over sized.
  I am sure this is a little more than you want to do but may be of interest to some.
I get a little upset with so many folks using 20# springs and over springing there pistols just to make them function
and not looking at the real reason it wont work with a 16# spring.
  I have been told all the reasons and the only one that holds water for me is a constant diet of +P ammo.
This crap about faster follow up shots makes me wonder and scratch my head.
  A standard 1911 set up the way it was intended shoots and locks up faster than you can think as it is.
Remember springs work both ways, a 20# spring will come back a little slower but it slams the slide closed faster adding abuse to the pistol, and lowers the muzzle instead of keeping it in line with the target.
  Once more I feel that if a 1911 needs to be over sprung to make it function--you have other problems.

[1911crazy]

I would like to reduce the recoil,  shorten up the cycle timing by less over travel and tune the 1911 to the ammo i'm using so i don't beat up the 1911 because the ammo over powers the recoil spring and the pistol.  I figure i can tweek it and find the sweet spot on the 1911.  I was thinking about going up one spring size till it doesn't function.  From 18#, to 20#, to 22# then once it won't cycle i can drop it back one size till it cycles.  Maybe two sizes back would be its sweet spot just to be sure i still have the reliability and dependability.  I guess i'll order some variable recoil springs to test them out too.  I wonder how many really tune there 1911 in the recoil area rather leave it a it is.

[gray-wolf]

A little more help please,

I would like to reduce the recoil,

 Would you care to say why you need to reduce the recoil

shorten up the cycle timing by less over travel

why? what is the problem with your pistol
and what are you calling over travel

tune the 1911 to the ammo i'm using so i don't beat up the 1911 because the ammo over powers the recoil spring and the pistol.  I figure i can tweek it and find the sweet spot on the 1911.  I was thinking

What ammo are you using ?  what makes you think you are over powering your recoil spring ?
and why do you think a standard set up is hammering your pistol ?
What represents a tuned 1911 to you.

 

I was thinking about going up one spring size till it doesn't function.  From 18#, to 20#, to 22# then once it won't cycle i can drop it back one size till it cycles.  Maybe two sizes back would be its sweet spot just to be sure i still have the reliability and dependability.  I guess i'll order some variable recoil springs to test them out too.  I wonder how many really tune there 1911 in the recoil area rather leave it a it is.

It's very hard to try and figure out what you are trying to achieve here.  Please understand that when you change one thing, most times two other things need to be changed to compensate for the first change.
  I think you are on your way to having extraction problems, stove pipes and some short cycling of the slide.
Your pistol should run fine with a 16# spring and the correct loads .  If you are shooting factory ammo and the recoil is to much or the pistol is not operating correctly then you need to fix that problem.
what are your loads, and what is the problem. 

I wonder how many really tune there 1911 in the recoil area rather leave it a it is

I wonder how many people have the need ?  Unless you are a very high tech shooter who can identify a problem
the out come is usually such that you have created a problem that was not there.
  I hope you find what you are looking for, or perhaps someone else can help you fix the problem you think you are having.  As it is you have not said what that problem is.  Only that you want to fix something that ain't broke.
  

[jimster]

My 2 cents...

What Grey-Wolf said in first post...all true.

I have tried the square bottom FPS with almost no radius, it was the best modification I have ever made with the most noticable effect while shooting. All 1911's that I own from now on will have this "old style" FPS.  If you tried it, you would never go back.   

Far as heavy recoil springs, what comes back has to go forward, just be more stress when it slams home.
My take on recoil springs is use the 16#...and that is probably more than you need, some people like 14 or 15 if they work. It is recommended that a 23# hammer spring and 16# recoil spring work together, along with the small radius FPS. 

I don't think you can beat up a 1911 with regular ball ammo made to spec. or any ammo made to normal pressure.

I get a little upset with so many folks using 20# springs and over springing there pistols just to make them function and not looking at the real reason it wont work with a 16# spring.

This is so true....if it does not feed smooth and slick, people want to ram the round home with a 20 pound spring...
sometimes all they need to do is loosen the darn extractor a little bit, or something else simple.

[1911crazy]

In the end I want the 1911 to be more controllable and shootable thus making it so anyone can shoot it rather than have it jump all around in all directions when it recoils.  Right now were only shooting the wolf 45acp ball ammo and the 18# recoil spring seems ok but i do we really know its the right spring for this ammo?  I shot another 1911 without doing anything too it with the orginal 16# recoil spring and it hammered itself to the point the sights were loose and that was only the beginning of its downward spirial.  I probably ruined the gun by not knowing enough about changing the recoil spring to a higher rate or it could of been a manufacturers defect too.  I just don't want another new 1911 to go that route. We could be ruining it without knowing it.  Time with many rounds thru it will tell the story.  But i want to tune it know to play it safe.  I think we can tune it to be a better more comfortable shooter than it is in its stock form.

[gray-wolf]

Thank you JIMSTER

OK you have had the riot act read to you      

Don't know what happened to your other 1911 with the Wolf ammo,  But you won't wreck a 1911 with a standard set up and standard ammo.  Perhaps you should try some hand loads if possible. Or eliminate the folks that can't handle a 45 ACP.  I doubt that one set up will satisfy many people.  
  4 grains of B/E or 4.3 of tite group and a 200 grain lead SW can be shot by a 12 year old.
What bothers me hear---- is that with all that has been said you have not asked one question about the advise you have been given.  You seem to be fixated on springs.    I think folks should have a good understanding of what makes a 1911 run. Or at least take the time to find out.
I can't be of any other help on this one, I tried.

A 16# spring is the correct spring for the Wolf ammo 
perhaps it was battered by the slide going into battery, While not needed a well made 1911 should not kill itself with an 18# spring--possible--Um perhaps, but I doubt it.  Then again I wasn't there.

[1911crazy]

All i asked was is there a noticable difference bewteen the standard recoil springs and the variable recoil springs.  I didn't give the riot act to anyone.  Thats all i wanted to know.

[jimster]

All i asked was is there a noticable difference bewteen the standard recoil springs and the variable recoil springs.  I didn't give the riot act to anyone.  Thats all i wanted to know.

The answer is no...there is no noticable difference at all. I've tried everything over the years, messing with springs of different poundage and variables never got me anywhere or anything I could actually say was different or better. Save yourself the trouble. I've already mentioned what would be a "noticable" difference in what you might be looking for. My advice is and will always be, don't over spring it. If your looking to retard or change the timing of the slide as it comes back, first thing the FPS hits is the HAMMER. Took me many years to learn about the 1911, don't know squat really yet, but I would hope to save you some time and money on the few things I learned.

Good luck  

 
had to make a correction....slide and FPS hits the hammer...hammer slows down the slide...sorry.


 

[1911crazy]

Sorry i get it know thru my thick head, maybe what i'm looking for isn't there.  I have to accept it is what it is and live with it.  Or shoot a 22 pistol right.  Maybe the 18# recoil spring is the best it can be which is still pretty impressive over the standard 1911 with the wolf ammo.  I got over excieted when i seen what an improvement the 18# recoil spring and the full length guide rod made and got hungry to make it better. I've never had a 1911 function this good.  The 1911 is a great pistol.

My 80's colt 1911 was probably a combination of the manufacturers quality control problems at the time plus my combination of reloads and hotter ammo which didn't help it back them.  You have to understand my consern that i don't want to hurt another 1911.  I shoot normal ammo now mostly.  I sometimes carry the winchester silver tip's or my speer soup bowel HP's but there not max'd out. maybe my knowledge of mistakes that i have made in the past will help someone else not to shoot so many hotter rounds i guess it can ruin any gun.  Oh ya i was one of those pump them up more with powder at onetime but no longer.  We do learn from mistakes.   Thanks guys i won't over spring my 1911, norc, AO & springers now, you saved them.

[NickSS]

I like to shoot 1911s and have owned a bunch of them.  I have always used the standard spring and if it was getting tired I replaced it with another standard spring.  I had two pistols that were customized for bulls eye shooting years ago and they had lighter 14 pound springs but I only shot 200 gr SWC at moderate velocities to punch holes in paper.

My most used pistol was a colt government model made in the early 70s I I bought it new in 1974.  I sold it in 1994 after putting approximately 50,000 rounds through it.  Most were 230 gr RN cast bullets pushed by 5 gr of Red Dot. The only thing I ever did to that pistol was change a ejector and an extractor and one main spring.  It was a bit loose when I sold it but it was still perking along just fine.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive used variable rate wolf springs for years. Dont ask me why as i dont have an answer. I dont know if they work better or not but they work.