Author Topic: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.  (Read 3662 times)

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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2010, 01:27:55 PM »
I shot some 2400 under 265gr .380" gas checked bullets thru my shorty 38-55, when I finally got one on the paper it was keyholed, so did the rest that hit the paper which were few. I got some Hunters Supply #013762604 260gr .381"  to use, but as gcrank1 stated, they require outside neck turned brass (or the chamber neck to be reamed to .400", see the FAQs) to chamber, I ordered a .375" pilot for my Forster hand neck turner, removed .001" from the case and they chamber fine, just need put the gas checks on a batch of bullets since they come without em.

Tim

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Offline Blackhawker

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2010, 01:23:42 AM »
I shot some 2400 under 265gr .380" gas checked bullets thru my shorty 38-55, when I finally got one on the paper it was keyholed, so did the rest that hit the paper which were few. I got some Hunters Supply #013762604 260gr .381"  to use, but as gcrank1 stated, they require outside neck turned brass (or the chamber neck to be reamed to .400", see the FAQs) to chamber, I ordered a .375" pilot for my Forster hand neck turner, removed .001" from the case and they chamber fine, just need put the gas checks on a batch of bullets since they come without em.

Tim

http://www.hunters-supply.com/shop/index.php?cPath=23
Tim,
That's what I get when I use heavier loads of 2400 too.  Have you tried firing the neck turned rounds yet?  I'm quite interested in knowing how that turns out for you.  Currently, the most 2400 I can load with decent results is only about 17.5 grains. 

As always, thanks for the info!
Chris

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2010, 05:53:30 AM »
Not yet, deer and salmon season interfered, but will get back at it soon and post some results.  ;)

Tim
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Offline petemi

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2010, 12:09:05 PM »
OK, here goes ignorant.  What is neck turning and how do you do it.

Pete
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2010, 12:23:32 PM »
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Darreld Walton

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2010, 05:09:49 PM »
I almost forgot to mention, especially to those who wish to shoot jacketed in the somewhat oversize bores......
I recently fooled around with an 'assembled' Winchester M94 with 26" octagon barrel that had seen somewhat better days.
Jacketed .375 diameter bullets would keyhole, no matter what powder, or velocity tried.
I ordered some of the Barnes "Original" .377 diameter 250 gr. bullets, with their copper jacket, and somewhat soft core.  That old M94 immediately perked up, and no more keyholes showing on the target.  Biggest downfall to the bullets is that they're fairly pricey, but in the case of this rifle, it was well worth it.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2010, 06:55:57 PM »
Field Report, today, '06 38-55 TM (thus the small neck chamber) with an old El Paso Weaver K-3 scope, new production 38-55 WW brass (shorter than the old orig. brass), .379 248gr. 'old style 38-55 bullet of Lyman #2 alloy, 'pan lubed with nothing fancy and over 18.0gr. IMR4227.
The brass had the neck 'lightly dressed' on a spinning emory wheel to reduce the dia.'just a tad'. Each shot was with the same stick of brass reloaded at the shooting bench without resizing. The seating depth of the bullets was not fine tuned to get each 'into the rifling', that is, the seating die was set to get the bullet in the case far enough to chamber up cleanly and still extract without difficulty. Each was still far enough out of the case neck that the 'crimp groove' was well exposed.
As you can tell, these are not the finely crafted benchrest target type reloads.
Offhand at 86yd. regular hits on 3"x3" steel square plates.
Offhand, No problem hitting and toppling with authority 1' steel buffalo silhouettes.
Offhand, 125ish yds out in the cornfield stubble, bullets went right where the rifle was looking upon ignition at various 'targets of opportunity' (not too big, not too small, but juuust right).
No, I didnt shoot any paper target groups to brag on 'this or that' number of inches, just shot at reasonably sized targets in the real world and did as well or better than my friends did off the bench.
Gun did splendidly, I did at least OK, and had a VERY good day!
BTW, Would I have done as well with the 30-30, probably, except those bigger dia. and heavier 38-55 bullets have a lot of 'thwack' in them, without abusing me (old whiplash injury) and really look cool.
 
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Offline Blackhawker

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2010, 03:50:27 AM »
Interesting results with the IMR 4227 gcrank1.  A couple of weeks ago I had posted a thread on the use of IMR-4227 with the 38-55.  I ended up testing it at the range about two weeks ago.

Link:  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,217749.0.html

My intention was to test various powders and loads with both my Thompson Contender 20" barrel and my W&H Target Classic.  Both have different bores, obiously (Thompson .375 and W&H .379), but I loaded the same loads with appropriate bullets.  In my case I was using the Lyman #375449 Gas checked 264 grain with a hardness of roughly 12 for each.  Oddlly, I have found these bullets to actually weigh 282 to 285 grains even from two different casters.  The brass I use in both rifles is new WW brass of standard length, not the longer Star Line brass length.

I only obtained data for the Thompson Contender only that day and for some odd and unexplained reason, I couldn't hit a barn from the inside with my Target Classic, which typically outshoots my scoped Contender.  ???  In any case, what I have found for both of these rifles is that when I reach a threashold load for almost any powder, the bullets go crazy and literaly spray all over the place when only a half grain over such a threashold level.  I have found this caliber to do extremely well for lower to moderate loads up to maybe 1600 to 1700 fps (guessed velocity having no chronograph) in my rifles but would love to see if I can push them to the velocities as written by Tim, Paco Kelly and others who have experimented a lot with this caliber.  I really enjoy loading and shooting this caliber; it's a claassic yet can still stand up against many of the more commonly used modern calibers of today.
Chris

Offline gcrank1

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2010, 05:01:20 AM »
Just revisited your info, I had not responded to that post because I dont use GC bullets in the 38-55. I have used moderate loads of IMR 4227 for years in reduced velo loads in a number of calibers. Very satisfactory in all but light bullet loads where I think there is not enough 'back pressure' to get a good burn. BTW, I currently use that same charge in 30-40 Krag, 30-06 (both with GC bullets 180gr+) and the 38-55 and dont have to change my powder measure. Maybe not the best but I hold my own in the offhand casual matches out to 200yd. 'with the boys'.
For your HV loads I dont know, I just dont get up there in that rarified air. I suspect you are correct in your analysis of which powder works for you under those conditions. In spite of reading of those who get 'jacketed bullet like velo from (usually quenched) GC cast bullets', and using some GC designs myself, I just dont enjoy that much flash and pizzaz for my fun shooting. I cant fault the faster stuff on performance and accuracy, in the little Ive gone there, but think you are right about that 1750ish fps on regular hard cast bullets.
Not wanting to 'jack' this thread further from the OPs inquiry, this conversation might better become its own or PM me anytime. I certainly dont know it all though I have fun trying to figure it out!
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2010, 08:20:55 PM »
I know the velocity is greater in even factory ammo with the .30-30, but I'm thinking the larger bullet and meplat in the .38-55 will kill better at moderate ranges......right or wrong?Pete

Wrong...dead is dead.Both can kill just as easily and just as well as the other at moderate ranges...and both can wound an animal at the same yardage just as easily. ;) :D :D :D

Mac




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Offline gcrank1

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Re: .30-30 vs. .38-55 Handi..Brain picking time.
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2010, 05:56:38 AM »
Yep, armchair theory and speculatin' aside, there is good reason the 30-30 has been one of the most, if not the most, popular 'deer' cartridge since the 44-40 and .22LR (and the old round ball 'Kentucky' rifle).
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
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We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974