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Offline gatersb

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i give on cast bullets
« on: November 10, 2010, 05:16:38 AM »
Hey guys i finally give up on cast bullets for a while and i going to jacketed bullets.  The load that did really well 2 month ago just shot a pattern at 100 yards.  The temp and humidity are the only difference.  I give im going back to jacketed bullets maybe when i get better at reloading i will try cast but as of now im done.  well enough of a rant bought a box of the hornady 325 gonna try them.  Any input or i told you so is cool (tacklebury) :) 

BG

by the way it was my 45/70 handi
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Offline thejanitor

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 05:51:38 AM »
We like cast bullets in the 45-70 for trailboss loads and plinking but I have never used them in a hunting situation, we go jacketed all the way for hunting........ for now. Maybe that will change after I get my next batch of cast bullets but right now I have been using a mix match bunch of other peoples trade offs. So will definetly try them later on, but for now we like jackets on in the fall  ;D
thejanitor
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Offline GrampaMike

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 08:33:46 AM »
Hey BG,
The FAQ has some 45-70 cast loads listed near the bottom, that I have GREAT luck with.  Only thing I use anymore with th 32" 45-70.
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Offline petemi

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2010, 09:44:48 AM »
I have cast bullets for my .45-70.  I load them down to 14 or 1500 fps and I don't use them on big game.  They're just fun to shoot.  thejanitor knows well what we shoot to make meat.

Pete
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Offline manatee1947

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2010, 02:11:56 PM »
I have used the same bullets for hunting since I started casting and have no problem. I was just discussing on the cast bullet forum, a 45/70 340 gr @ 1500 fps is equal to all the 19th century "express" loads, which routinely killed big bears and elk with no problems. Being infected with "magnumitis" has left us unable to comprehend the effectiveness of bullets that operate under the 2500/3000 fps range with only a "ton" of muzzle energy.  A 50 pound bow with a 350gr arrow that goes out at under 300 fps goes through a deer easily, they are really not hard to kill.
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Offline sabbatus

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2010, 02:31:30 PM »
been shootin everything that walks for years with cast in the 45/70.   dont give up. cast bullets are great shooters  the biggest thing to remember is that the bullet base is the most important factor in accuracy, make sure its square and protect it at all cost.

are you casting yourself or buying the cast bullets.    what diameter and weight are they,   what powder?    if you dont mind me asking
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Offline hillbill

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 02:56:42 PM »
possible yu have some leading in your barrel? happens in my revolvers, a quik cleaning with chore boy copper wool and everything is back to good.
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Offline hillbill

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 03:08:24 PM »
if im shooting a new load, maybe a little hot or sumpin,it will print good groups for awhile and then jus go to crap. that means leading in the barrel.
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Offline gatersb

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 03:56:53 PM »
Thanks guys i think it is leading the bullets are bought and are on the soft side i think cant remember or find the box.  The bullets are .458 and 405 grains i think they are suppose to be a gas check bullet because the bullet isnt flat on the base it has a bevel.  Im shooting 25 grains of 5744.  I scrubbed the crap out of the barrel today and it was quite dirty.  The same bullet with trailboss hits sideways on the target at 100 yards with a mid range load by the way(wicked sound the bullet makes tumbling).  Any info is appreciated i know the rifle will shoot with win 300 hp it puts them almost touching at 100 yards it just rattles my teeth of the bench. 

BG
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Offline Dinny

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2010, 04:40:38 PM »
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Offline gatersb

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 05:07:23 PM »
thank you
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Offline Spanky

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 05:32:51 PM »
I shoot 405gr. hardcast in my 45-70 and it shoots pretty good. It might just be a leaded barrel like the other guys said.
Give it a good scrubbing and see what happens.



Spanky
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 05:46:42 PM »
If you have any Wipeout foaming cleaner, it works great on lead fouling, it just takes a couple days to soak, then push the fouling out with a patch, I had a terribly fouled muzzleloader, spent hours with Shooter's Choice and a couple other solvents, then read on the Wipeout website that it destroys alloys in lead that break it down, let it soak for a couple days and the lead came out in flakes!

Once you get it clean, load the biggest diameter bullet you can chamber, you're most likely shooting undersize bullets, I've had the best luck with .459" or .460" cast in my 45-70s. To check it, see how your current bullet fit in an unsized fired case from your 45-70, if it drops right in, it's too small.  ;)

Tim
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Offline gatersb

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 06:23:48 PM »
thank you i will check bullets and i have wipeout but only gave it like one hour will try the soaking method. 
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Offline hillbill

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2010, 09:57:44 PM »
easiest way to get rid of leading is like the revolver boys do, jus shove it out with some chore boy copper wool wrapped around a old bore brush. only takes a few min and works great.
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Offline Duckdog

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2010, 01:09:31 AM »
You can alos try bumping the charge up some.  See if that helps.  25 gr of XMP 5744 is pretty light. I'm using 30 gr of XMP 5744 in my handi with a 405 gr PB cast and she shoots 1" grps all day @ 100 yds.   I cast for about 20 different calibers and have not found one, except the 270 win, that will shoot excellent groups.  Keep at it.  As far as hunting with them, I use nothing but cast bullets for hunting these days.  Like one of the posters above said, we seem to think we need some kind of super magnums to do a relatively simple job.  I remember bow hunting with a 35 pound recuve with cedar arrows and we did just fine.  Wouldn't take much of a cast bullet to equal that!
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Offline Ranger J

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2010, 04:18:35 AM »
My gun shoots OT hardcast really well.  I use Trail Boss when I am just shooting paper and bump it up a mite with 2400 to use on deer.  Not a real hot load but even a 300 gr bullet will give a complete pass through and make a hole larger than a lot of 30 cal SPs.  I have no problem with leading.  If you really want to open up a hole try the Rem 300 HPs over a marlin load of Re#7.  It ain't pretty and ruins some meat. >:(

RJ
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Offline manatee1947

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 05:00:05 AM »
I was doing some quick load testing this AM, I am using a 440gr ww cast 500 S&W. Using Unique powder 15.5 gr gave about a 6" group @ 50 yds and one pierced primer. Backed up to 14 gr and have a 2.4 " group, no pierced primers.(Using 350 CCI mag pistol primers ) That load tested for penetration went through 5 yellow pine 2x4's and lodged in the 6th. I never thought I would be happy about a 2" + group @ 50 yards, but that is with factory irons and not much tinkering. I am hunting in brush where 100yds would be a rare and long shot so not really a problem. This will be my 1st season opener with iron sights in decades, but those fiber optic sights I can actually see. Don't give up on cast too quickly, once you get the recipe they are very satisfying.
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Offline manatee1947

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2010, 02:25:13 PM »
Update on the above post: I remembered that it seemed to shoot better with longer loads, so I went back and increased the OAL from 2.030 to 2.100. Group shrank from 2.4 to 1.6" on consecutive 5 shot groups. The  ;D just got bigger.
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Offline BBF

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2010, 06:36:56 PM »
Those 405 gr bullets by your description are bevel base and DO NOT take a gas check.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2010, 07:00:09 PM »
Quote from: scatterbrain on November 12, 2010, 06:36:56 PM
Those 405 gr bullets by your description are bevel base and DO NOT take a gas check.

They will if the bevel is just right, you evidently haven't read Gas Checking PB Cast Bullets in the FAQs, been there, done that...in Bernie's tracks!!  ;)

Tim
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Offline BBF

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2010, 07:09:52 PM »
 Correct, I have not read it although just for the heck of it I tried a GC on a BB bullet and didn't see how that would work.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 07:12:48 PM »
Well, click the link I posted and enlighten yourself.   ;D

Tim
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: i give on cast bullets
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2010, 05:18:47 AM »
+1 on what Quick says for sure, especially the dia. part. Also, if the cast bullets have no antimony component in the alloy I believe they will age soften. This is generally not a problem if the dia is big enough, even if you are moving them right along. If undersize they WILL gas cut even if hard alloy.
FWIW, I usually end up with a happy load going about the top black powder velocities though using smokeless.
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