Evolving muzzle loader

[crow_feather]

If a major firearms company came out with a new muzzle loader that;

Used a 2 1/2" long brass case to hold the primer and make a positive stop for the saboted bullet

Used smokeless powder

loaded the 45 saboted bullet from the muzzle

Should it be considered a muzzle loader or a center fire rifle?

[crow_feather]

Thank You Gentlemen.

[wallynut]

Sounds like your loading a cartridge gun from the muzzle :-D

[rollingb]

Crow Feather,.... Actually what you described, was done by "Harry Pope" and other notable precision shooters of his day.

Harry was a "notable" gunsmith, and was an excellent shot and competitor. He was of the muzzle-loaded breechloader discipline,.... and used cartridges loaded with blackpowder, "compressed" and "topped" with a wad. This cartridge was then breech-loaded and a bullet was "pre-engraved" by the rifle'ns as it was muzzleloaded and pushed down the bore until it made contact with the cartridge.

Some "Schuetzen" shooters, still use this method in ther breechload'n-centerfire "Schuetzen rifles" today!!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I'd call it a muzzle loader.  Because that's what it is.

However, I would open the discussion up to "what kinds of muzzle loaders should be allowed during a 'muzzle loader' season?"

And that would depend entirely on what you aim to accomplish by offering the season.  Do you want to thin the herd?  Then it makes no sense to have a ML season - just lengthen the rifle season.  But if you really need a ML season to thin the herd it would make sense to let anything go.

If you aim to make a "quality" hunt then pairing back on the technology makes the most sense.  Less technology means fewer hunters with attempt it, which translates into less pressure on the deer.  This can also be accomplished by a lottery drawing of permits.  

Frankly if someone thinks a single-shot .30-06 is enough of a handicap to justify an extra week in the woods I kinda feel sorry for 'em.

[River runner]

Amen Black Jaque, couldn't a said it better myself. The inlines are fun to shoot on the range, but I feel sorry for the fella, or lady, that thinks they are going back in time hunting with an in-line, especially those that shoot the smokeless, just taint the same! RR

[Winter Hawk]

M'seur Janaviac,

Perhaps you could post a new topic for what kind of muzzleloader should be allowed during the ML season?  Then the lively bashing between those for and against in-lines could be diverted to it and the other threads can go back to being about their topics.  In fact, why don't we start a thread of just Randy and Omega v.s. Crow Feather and RollingB?  The rest of us could check in every so often to see what these gentlemen had to say to each other and the other topics wouldn't get so cluttered up!   :lol:

Cheers!

-Kees-

[onesonek]

Personally, I think, what you describe is a open breech. Therefore, not a muzzle loader!  But what is the point. Inline, sidelock, or flint'r,are essentually the same. All loaded from the bussiness end!! As too, my original post. I don't see many touting match locks.
As for deer herds, they are in record numbers(at least here, due to mild winters the last 2 years), and are paying for it with natural diseases taking it's toll.
  I still don't see the need for bickering between traditionalist and modern. It's fine to have your opinion,which I try to respect, but quit whine'n please. The in-line shooter's aren't hurting you. Yes there are hunters out there, but more deer also. Granted aliitle more crowded, but no reason to belittle the next HUNTER for techincal reasons.

[crow_feather]

keesvw2002

While not in the best of taste and not of a topic to your liking, that thread had over 1500 viewers and hopefully got some people thinking, (if you could get past the trash talk).

But you are probably right, you go on and start writing threads and I won't interfere in them.

C F