Hey Lonehunter, keep on him. In my experience they are like used car salesmen, sometimes worse. I do understand tehy have to make a living, but never undestand why they have to make a killing on everything? On stuff like that, they usually get it real cheap, stating to the customer, the market is soft and they can't sell it--so the buy it or trade into it and then tell a prospective buyer there are guys standing in line waiting to buy it first. Ya know what--let em keep it! I NEVER pay more than $50 less than a new one. Why should we, but if it already has dies or scope mounts/rings, that has to be taken into consideration. Hold out, they usually move when you flash the cash.Good luck.