Dick's .308 Camo W/Scope

[parson48]

Awhile back I asked for opinions on 30-06 Handis and got quite a few comments. I have been keeping my eyes open for, but I went into Dick's a little while ago and they have 3 Handis in .308, with camo stock and no-name scopes, for $249 each, plus I have a $15 coupon. So, tell me about your .308s.

My coupon is good through Sunday, so I have to make a decision pretty soon.

[necchi]

I like the round. Handloading and a few other "accurizing" tips in the faqs has allowed me sub moa groups, but that can be accomplished with most caliber's.
Comparing the 30-06 to the 308 has been done for decades. They basically have the same ballistic curve for bullets upto 175, there after the 06' takes over and reigns. The 308 can't push the velocity needed for the heavies.

[quickdtoo]

They basically have the same ballistic curve for bullets upto 175, there after the 06' takes over and reigns. The 308 can't push the velocity needed for the heavies.

I've hunted with the 308Win for many years, have taken many, many deer and elk with 180gr factory ammo, your statement is simply not true, most published data sources include data for 190-200gr bullets for the 308 Win, the Lee manual has data up to 250gr! Handloaded 200gr Nosler Partitions load just fine in my 308 Handi with the bullet seated so the base of the bullet is right at the neck shoulder datum which is perfect giving full use of case capacity, the long throated H&Rs makes loading the heavies easy. 

Tim

[cwlongshot]

Tim,
 My reading Necchis post tells me differently... 
 IMHO its simply the problem with the written word in forums such as ours. It's taken as black and white. I understand both of your statements. 
Necchi mentioned the 30-06 and the 308. So its a comparison between the two. I know the OP only asked about the 308, but he introduced in the 30-06.
So, if I may, what I read is also what I also agree with. The 308 is a great cartridge, but its case capacity makes it more efficient with bullets under 180 grains. Simple fact. YES seating the 308 longer helps a great deal. But we make these statements based on SAMMI specs. So such seating is not in the equation. Kinda like our conversations about your super Rem 35 ballistics.

The 30-06 has a greater capacity and its a better caliber for the 180 and 200 Grain bullets than the 308. Now the 30-06 is loaded to less pressures so the differences are minimal. I won't bring in to this the ability to load the '06 to the same as 308 pressures and get even more of an increase in comparing ballistics.
Kinda how the 300 Savage got a name for itself, back in the early 1920's.  It almost made '06 ballistics form a short lever because it had a efficient use of its powder capacity and it was loaded to a bit higher pressures.

So its my opinion that the 308 is a great caliber. It's most efficient if your gonna PRIMARILY use it for bullets of 180 or less. IF you feel a need for heavier bullets, the 30'06 or one of the 300's would be a better choice.

CW

[quickdtoo]

Parson48 didn't ask for anything concerning the 30-06 in this thread, that's in his other thread, and specifically stated

So, tell me about your .308s

 As I stated, the 308 Win works great with 180gr bullets, in fact I prefer the 180gr over the lighter bullets and that's all I have ever used and never had any complaints on them on deer or elk, they even work great on Coyotes.   Below is a direct comparison of Remington 180gr Core-lokt pointed soft point ammo using their comparison chart, there isn't enough difference between the two to be concerned about.

Tim
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/rifle-cartridges/core-lokt-centerfire.aspx

Comparison
Model   Core-Lokt   Core-Lokt                   
Order No.   27828   21479                   
Avg Wt Case   13   12                   
Ballistics Coefficient   0.383   0.383                   
Caliber   30-06 308 Win.                    
En 100   2436   2288                   
En 200   2023   1896                   
En 300   1666   1557                   
En 400   1362   1269                   
En 500   1105   1028                   
En Muzzle   2913   2743                   
L RT100   2.1   2.3                   
L RT150   1.8   2.0                   
L RT200   zero   zero                   
L RT250   -3.5   -3.8                   
L RT300   -9.0   -9.7                   
L RT400   -26.3   -28.3                   
L RT500   -54.0   -57.8                   
S RT100   0.0   0.0                   
S RT150   -1.3   -1.5                   
S RT200   -4.2   -4.6                   
S RT250   -8.8   -9.5                   
S RT300   -15.4   -16.5                   
S RT50   0.0   0.0                   
Vel 100   2469   2393                   
Vel 200   2250   2178                   
Vel 300   2042   1974                   
Vel 400   1846   1782                   
Vel 500   1663   1604                   
Vel Muzzle   2700   2620                   
Index   R30065   R308W3                   
Bullet Type   Pointed Soft Point   Pointed Soft Point                   
Primer Number   9 1/2   9 1/2                   
Wt   180   180

[cwlongshot]

Tim,
 My reading Necchis post tells me differently...  
 IMHO its simply the problem with the written word in forums such as ours. It's taken as black and white. I understand both of your statements.  
Necchi mentioned the 30-06 and the 308. So its a comparison between the two. I know the OP only asked about the 308, but he introduced in the 30-06.
So, if I may, what I read is also what I also agree with. The 308 is a great cartridge, but its case capacity makes it more efficient with bullets under 180 grains. Simple fact. YES seating the 308 longer helps a great deal. But we make these statements based on SAMMI specs. So such seating is not in the equation. Kinda like our conversations about your super Rem 35 ballistics.

The 30-06 has a greater capacity and its a better caliber for the 180 and 200 Grain bullets than the 308. Now the 30-06 is loaded to less pressures so the differences are minimal. I won't bring in to this the ability to load the '06 to the same as 308 pressures and get even more of an increase in comparing ballistics.
Kinda how the 300 Savage got a name for itself, back in the early 1920's.  It almost made '06 ballistics form a short lever because it had a efficient use of its powder capacity and it was loaded to a bit higher pressures.

So its my opinion that the 308 is a great caliber. It's most efficient if your gonna PRIMARILY use it for bullets of 180 or less. IF you feel a need for heavier bullets, the 30'06 or one of the 300's would be a better choice.
CW

I'm NOT dissagreeing with you one bit!! (SEE my bold type)

CW

[Hit or Miss]

I love .308!  To me it is the perfect caliber for Kansas, from coyote sized game on up!  I've seen a few guns that would shoot 125 grain bullets for lighter game but I haven't been able to get mine to group like I want with bullets that light.  I've done well with 150's and need to work up a load with something heavier to see if my groups close up.  This is in an un-handi, so there's no confusion.  I'd carry it anywhere in the US!

[quickdtoo]

I'm NOT dissagreeing with you one bit!! (SEE my bold type)

CW

Sorry CW, I can't ignore the rest of that sentence...

I know the OP only asked about the 308, but he introduced in the 30-06. 

He didn't introduce it, only referenced the other thread. But I know what you're saying, my point is 180gr bullets and lighter are fine in the 308Win, I've not used heavier bullets, but do know that a handloader would appreciate the heavier bullets due to the long throats typical of most H&R rifle chamberings, my 308 Win bull barrel is no exception, I've only shot 168gt TSX in it, but that bullet has an almost identical profile to the 180gr Accubond, so if loading to close to the lands is desirable, the heavier bullet would be a better option IMO, and the 1:10" twist is just fine for the heavier bullets.

Tim

[spikehorn]

I have one of the Dick's SG 308 I did the JB bore paste thing per the FAQs put a Nikon 3X9X40 pro staff on it and was shooting an 1 1/2 at 100 yards with Rem core lokt 150gr ammo. Last year I took a deer at 160 yards with it. I have since put a refinished pallet wood monte carlo stock and a schnable fore end on (personal preference). Next to my 45-70s this is probably my favorite gun.

[Fred M]

This dialog has gone on for a long time, to a point of monotomy.
In agood cabably bolt rifle or a Ruger #1 there is no reason not to load the 06 to the same pressure as the 270 that is about 65K.
No matter how you cut it the 308 will not outdo the 06 or equal it.
The case is simply bigger and holds more powder.

[cwlongshot]

I'm NOT disagreeing with you one bit!! (SEE my bold type)

CW

Sorry CW, I can't ignore the rest of that sentence...

I know the OP only asked about the 308, but he introduced in the 30-06. 

He didn't introduce it, only referenced the other thread. But I know what you're saying, my point is 180gr bullets and lighter are fine in the 308Win, I've not used heavier bullets, but do know that a hand loader would appreciate the heavier bullets due to the long throats typical of most H&R rifle chamberings, my 308 Win bull barrel is no exception, I've only shot 168gt TSX in it, but that bullet has an almost identical profile to the 180gr Accubond, so if loading to close to the lands is desirable, the heavier bullet would be a better option IMO, and the 1:10" twist is just fine for the heavier bullets.

Tim

Again Tim, I feel there is a loss from the written word… (Or misunderstanding) I know you know your stuff. I am not disagreeing.

BOTH of them introduced the 30-06 into the statements. IMHO, Necchi was simply comparing the to, as an example of a better heavy bullet platform.
What I did disagree with was what I feel was your statement that the statement Necchi made was simply not true.
He stated
“They basically have the same ballistic curve for bullets up to 175, there after the 06' takes over and reigns. The 308 can't push the velocity needed for the heavies.”

You stated, “I've hunted with the 308Win for many years, have taken many, many deer and elk with 180gr factory ammo, your statement is simply not true,”

I’m saying IMHO, Necchi is spot on correct.

You mention the rate of twist. The 308 is a 30 cal and 1in10 is a 30 caliber twist so BOTH the ‘06 and ‘08 share this rate of twist from many manufacturers. It’s a moot point. It’s never been an issue of being able to stabilize the heavier bullet. It’s simply a HORSE POWER situation. The ‘06 has MORE making it a better option for heavier bullets. EXACTLY the same reason we recommend the 35 Maxi to be limited to the 180Gr.

All along we have said the 308 is best, preferred  or most efficient with bullets 180 and LESS. Never that it wouldn’t shoot them.

I understand your statement about the longer bullet. The longer bullet gets you closer to the leade. But again this is seating longer than SAMMI spec.

CW

[parson48]

Not to interrupt a good discussion, but to clarify my post; I wasn't looking for a comparison of the 2 calibers, but what experience others have had with the Handi in .308. I asked because some calibers seem to have particular quirks. Examples such as slow twist, oversized chambers, etc.

I thought that the price Dick's has on these is decent, so was hoping to get input from those who have the .308.

Thanks.

[Slufoot]

Hey parson if you like the camo model at Dick's with your coupon it would be $234, that's a good price. I guarantee if you put the bullet in the right spot nothing will know if it came from an '06 or a 308. I have a 308 in a rifle and a pistol and it's a fine cartridge but given a choice I'd rather have the 30-06, I guess that's why I've got six '06's in the safe.
I'd probably go to Dick's with that coupon and get the 308, I'm sure it will serve you well as long as it's a good shooter. Remember the main thing is putting the bullet in the proper place!

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[quickdtoo]

Not to interrupt a good discussion, but to clarify my post; I wasn't looking for a comparison of the 2 calibers, but what experience others have had with the Handi in .308. I asked because some calibers seem to have particular quirks. Examples such as slow twist, oversized chambers, etc.

I thought that the price Dick's has on these is decent, so was hoping to get input from those who have the .308.

Thanks.

The biggest complain on the 308 Handi in general over the years is sticking brass, not an issue with extractors, you'll be happy with the 308 from Dick's, the only complaint I recollect on them specifically is the scope that comes on it is the typical economy model that's expected on scoped combos, one of them was reported to have the turret adjustment marking backwards, up was down and right was left, the scopes are made offshore, same as those that Remington puts on their package guns.  I was gonna buy one when they first came out just for the stock set, but decided to wait, they're a nice looking and handling H&R, I have three sets of the new style synthetics now, one of which is camo on my 38-55 Shorty, love it! 

Tim

[pairishman]

Have the exact same gun...love it.  It was a shooter from the get go.  I didn't have any problems with the scope.  I bought a 444 from gander mountain with the same scope though and it was crap.  I could not get it sighted in, so I replaced it.

[max1138]

the only problem I see with it is I dont have one(YET)
buy gun, shoot critter,eat dinner.
 a 308 will do for anything in north america with the  possible exception of the brown or grizzly bears.(depending on bullet and range and placement its possible there too, this is more along the lines of  you or me pooh and it aint gonna be me type stuff)
I am not advocating  a 308 for dangerous game mind you, for that sort of thing a 375H&H with 300 grain solids makes me much less likely to wind up as dinner rather than the other way round, least to my way of thinking.

go buy the gun if it isnt what you think you need someone here will take it off your hands, maybe piece at a time but it will go.
sight it in with 150 grain core lokt green box remingtons for a cheap and effective deer round.
for elk or bigger 180 grain winchester failsafes or similar drop around 10 inches at 300 yards with a 200 yard zero,hint, aim at the spine  behind the shoulder and it'll die.   maybe like lightning ,maybe a little slower but not much slower with the boiler works scrambled                    

[max1138]

the only problem I see with it is I dont have one(YET)
altho I do shoot a browning BLR in 308 and it has carried me happily thru many whitetails and hogs  and a few elk.
buy gun, shoot critter,eat dinner.
 a 308 will do for anything in north america with the  possible exception of the brown or grizzly bears.(depending on bullet and range and placement its possible there too, this is more along the lines of  you or me pooh and it aint gonna be me type stuff)
I am not advocating  a 308 for dangerous game mind you, for that sort of thing a 375H&H with 300 grain solids makes me much less likely to wind up as dinner rather than the other way round, least to my way of thinking.

go buy the gun if it isnt what you think you need someone here will take it off your hands, maybe piece at a time but it will go.
heck I would like a 308 barrel for my handi, gotta lot of ammo to play with
sight it in with 150 grain core lokt green box remingtons for a cheap and effective deer round.
for elk or bigger 180 grain winchester failsafes or similar drop around 10 inches at 300 yards with a 200 yard zero,hint, aim at the spine  behind the shoulder and it'll die.   maybe like lightning ,maybe a little slower but not much slower with the boiler works scrambled                    

[Winter Hawk]

I have shot a lot of .308 out of a Winchester 88, and really like the round.  The short, fat cases just do something for me.  Also the deer I have collected with it, by golly!   

-WH-

[necchi]

Ooop's sorry,
  I took the entire topic as another comparison thread. After all you was asking about the Handi 30-06 then the Handi 308,, beyond the basic rifle being a fine rifle for the price the only differance is the chambering.
  Do you want it in a 30-06 or a 308? Too me that's comparing the two different chambers. What else?
 I like the 308, the 30-06 kicks too much for whats gained. I've gotten older and don't need the big recoil guns anymore to prove I'm tuff enough to handle it. My nephew's have my 06'. That thing was a tack driver, it's olde too, throats wore out, it's still a good hunter.
 I've seen plenty of guys at the range with big guns and magnums get little more than pie plate groups, brag how good their guns is, then walk away rubbing their neck.

 As another said I wouldn't hessitate to use my 308 on any game besides large Brown or Grizzly bear, I'd have no problem with our MN Black bear though.

[LunaticFringeInc]

Dont have a handi in 308 as I have a lot of other guns in 308.  If it werent for that I would pounce on the one Dicks has now.  The 308 is a outstanding game getter if you are sticking primarily to bullets under 180 grains.  Given the well made premium bullets out these days I dont see much reason to go any heavier than that.  The 308 is a very effceint and capable hunting round for the most part.

[mrbgt]

The only negative I have on the .308 is more handi rifle related . These lite rifles jump pretty good shooting the .308 . I had a survivor .308 and boy did she jump, that and no recoil pad on that survivor stock. Since I live in Ohio , and you can only shoot groundhog and coyote with high powered rifles , I did a rifle make over , with the help of the classifieds on here of course , I now have a ultra varmit .204 on my .308 frame , and much prefer shooting this laser beem . I do have a Cetme battle rifle in .308 and do love the round .

[spikehorn]

My dick's SG H&R 308 doesn't kick or jump as much as my kids Stevens 308 bolt action