Author Topic: My first 45 acp !  (Read 1034 times)

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Offline scottjge

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My first 45 acp !
« on: December 20, 2010, 02:39:40 PM »
Hi all, new to this forum and just got my first 45 acp. I can see right now that I have a lot of learning to catch up on and am in a whole different world from what I am used to. I have always had revolvers, mainly a Super Blackhawk 44 mag.

I have a few things about the acp that is annoying to me and I will have to get used to it. I have a Colt Gold Cup National Match, series 80. I purchased it second hand after trading in my Blackhawk for it. Still haven't decided if that was a good idea as of yet. The one thing that really bugs me about this 45 acp is the fact that it ejects the brass all over the place. No two pieces of brass hit the same place twice and I have a hell of a time finding them on the ground. I figured with an automatic that all the shell ejected would fall in a general area but not this gun. It might throw them to the front of you, to the right side or maybe a few behind you. Do you have this same problem with your auto's ?

Next question, what type of accuracy can I expect from this gun ? Supposedly it was owned by a shooting instructor for the government. It has had some work on it from what I can tell. So it must be fairly accurate. I know it can shoot better than I can hold it. With my 44 mag, I used to shoot a 1.25" group at 50 yards but that was an exceptional gun and it was also before I had a stroke. Needless to say, I have a little shake to my old hands now. But I will master it, if it can be done.

Well got to get back to reading back post so I can learn something about my auto.

Scottjge

Offline Broom Rider

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 02:48:10 PM »
Erratic ejection can be due to extractor tension being to light. The extractor should be able to hold a loaded round in place all by itself. It doesn't have to hold it really tight, just so it doesn't fall out. I would guess about 3 pounds of tension on the case rim should be a good point to aim for. From there you can loosen or tighten it.
Lynnie, NRA Life Member

Offline scottjge

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2010, 02:51:08 PM »
Thanks for the reply. Extractor tension, eh ? I will have to do some googling and see if I can learn more about it.

Thank you for your advise

Offline gray-wolf

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 04:21:04 AM »
Broom rider hit on some good points.

The 1911 pistol is not a pistol that needs every Bell & whistle add on.
 It needs to be accurate, you need to know how to shoot it, and it needs to work every time you shoot it.
A good working knowledge of how it functions is very important, and it can't be gotten from a Midway Catalog.
Get a good DVD or a good book or two.  Getting advise from people that do not have this working knowledge will only frustrate the folks new to the 1911 platform. 
  Seems the first thing many people want to do is start changing parts and upgrading,
Breaking what didn't need fixing.
That said, the extractor plays a big part in a 1911 function.

While the extractor can't be blamed for every problem with a 1911
It is a good place to start if you have some of these problems. 

Getting hit in the head with empty shells ?--extractor
Shells going in front of the shooter ?---        extractor
Cases going all over the shooting area ?---extractor
Stove pipes ?--- extractor
Fail to feed ?---extractor
fail to extract ?---extractor
 
The extractor sits in what is called the extractor tunnel on the right side of the slide looking from the rear.
It is held in place with the firing pin stop (FPS ) the FPS also holds the firing pin and it's spring in place.
The FPS is the part that you see in back of the slide. The firing pin protrudes through it.
  The extractor is sometimes referred to as a little leaf spring, it puts a little side pressure on the rim of the case.
The side pressure is about 22-24 Oz. ( I believe )
  With the slide off the pistol, and the barrel removed, slide a dummy round  ( not an empty case )
under the the extractor hook. It should stay in place and not fall off while rotating the slide and giving it a little shake.
If it does it may need a ( little ) more tension. This can be done by removing the FPS and the firing pin along with it's spring. With care remove the extractor, clean the tunnel with a small brush and check it for dibris.
Clean the extractor.  Put the extractor back in place and then pull it out about 3/4 of an inch and apply a little side pressure on the part of the extractor that is sticking out of the pistol.
  ( to increase tension the pressure is applied opposite the ejection port ) Do the test again.
DO NOT OVER DO IT A LITTLE GOES A LONG WAY HERE.
  Re-assemble the pistol and load a mag with DUMMY empty rounds and check to see they load with out any binding against the breach face and enter the chamber smoothly.  To much tension can cause the round to bind between the extractor and the breach face ( round will not be fully seated under the extractor.)
  The wrong tension may cause a stove pipe also.
Shells going all over the shooting area and hitting the shooter 
 The culprit here in many cases it the extractor moving in the tunnel, it is referred to as clocking.
The extractor is rotating in it's tunnel like the hands on a clock ( clocking ) and not holding the empty case in the same position every time it tries to extract it.  This allows the case rim to contact the EJECTOR differently
 and the empty case leave the ejection port in a different arc each time extraction occurs.
The remedy for this is a new firring pin stop that fits in the the slide with a little resistance and is a positive fit into the groove in the back of the extractor.
A simple test with the pistol fully back together press on the upper part and the lower part of the extractor
at the rear with something that will not scratch the pistol.  There should be no rotating or movement of the extractor.
  What I have said here are some very condensed hints about the subject.
The extractor and it's proper shape and function is an in dept study, I have made some comments that may give a little insight on the subject with the hope that you may explore it further.

Offline scottjge

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 06:16:13 AM »
Wow, Very nice info and very educating. Is there a book or something that I can get to learn all that kind of stuff?

Anyway, I did as you said by putting in a dummy round under the extractor and it held the bullet while rotating the slide and gently shaking it. The bullet did come out after about 3 revolutions of the slide and some shaking but I figured that was a bit too much rotating. So I decided to take the firing pin, the stop and the extractor out of the gun just for a visual inspection and to learn one step at a time on how to dismantle the gun. The extractor had a bunch of sludge stuck to the end of it and there was also some in the extractor tunnel, so I cleaned it all up nice and clean and put everything back together and took it outside for a test run. I fired three shots thru it and all the brass hit in the same vicinity this time and not all over the place. They all fell within a 12 inch circle just to my right and slightly forward of the muzzle. Much ,much better than before where they were scattered all over the place. I am just guessing, but I would conclude that the dirt and sludge was the culprit. Apparently the last guy to own it didn't do a very good job cleaning it.

I want to thank you so much for taking the time to help me and share your expertise and knowledge.
Back to reading I go. Thanks again!

Scottjge

Offline gray-wolf

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 08:16:08 AM »
This is what you need,
there may be Vol.1 and Vol.2   but this is a great start.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=199119

I wish I had one myself, but I can't afford it now.  Had one years ago that someone stole from me.  Oh Hum.

Offline scottjge

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2010, 09:49:20 AM »
Thanks yet again. I went to Midway but they are all out and have more coming in. I will surely get one when they come in.

Thank you so much,
Scottjge

Offline boatboy

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 12:36:16 PM »
I read your post

The gun you traded and the gun you bought are quite different animals. They are both awesome but in different ways.
The colt is much tougher to find you can always find a BlackHawk. I love the feel of a 1911 in my hand not much feels better.

I have one series 70 and a small pile of Blackhawks given the right deal I probably wouldnt hesitate to trade a BH for a Colt 1911 almost any day. Just because I know I could find another one reasonable soon.

That being said I have been looking for a 44 but have not found one reasonable. Not a huge hurry I like to shoot a Redhawk in 44 anyway

Hank
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is King

Say what you want, pick on him. but Ringo is still a Beatle

Offline scottjge

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 02:29:38 PM »
Yes they are different beast. I really loved my 44 BH. I have pounded a lot of lead thru that thing. I got so that at 100 yards, there wasn't a target safe. Then I had a stroke and hadn't shot it since, which is about 2 years now. So I decided that it was time to get my first 1911, that I have always wanted. I love it so far, just a pain finding the brass after shooting. I need a lot of practice to get my hands back if they ever do come completely back. Although shooting at targets at 17 yards seem awful close after shooting 100 yards all the time. I never shot bullseye with it just 8" pie plates at 100 yard and 4 " plates at 50 yards...... what a blast. I am hoping that the 1911 will shoot that good at 25 and 50 yards, but I will have to wait until summer when I can get down to my range. For now shooting 50 ft at the local  range when it opens in January is all that I have until then.

The one problem that I am finding is that brass for the 45 acp is hard to find in my area. I just found 120 assorted brass the other day from a guy that sold his 45acp. I don't have a price yet but at least I found some. The other problem that I see is that things are much much for expensive now then it was a couple of years ago, especially now that I am on a fixed income.

I too will have another 44 mag someday if I can find a good deal.

Thank you for your reply,
scottjge

Offline Savage

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2010, 01:24:43 PM »
Once you are accustomed to the 1911 and familiar with the trajectory of the cartridge, 100yd targets are not safe from the old ACP either. 1/2 scale pepper poppers at 100yds or so fall quite readily to pistol fire with a little practice.
Savage 
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: My first 45 acp !
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2010, 01:40:34 PM »
Welcome to the 1911 45acp section.  There's a great group of guys here willing to help everyone out too.

If you do a search for " 1911 extractor tuning  "  all the info is on the net with pics on how to file it too.   I just repaired my 1990 springer from stove piping/ jamming.  the extractor was as straight as an arrow with no arc to it.  There are a few different video's and books on the 1911 too.  I found the Jerry Kuhnhuasen  1911/1911a1 pistol & commerical type pistol "the shop manual"  and his armorers video to be very helpful and a good place to start.  I believe the 1911 extractor is set at 4lbs for ball ammo.  On my extractor tuning tool instructions they recommend it set between 22oz to 28oz.   I set my SA at 28oz to start off with.  If you look at the 1911 extractor tuning tips the pics will show you how to improve the feeding and where to chamfer the extractor openings too.  Look closely at it there is a lower area were we should round the lower corner to improve a more reliable feeding too.             Bill