What is a good 357 mag load for a S&J M60 3" revolver?

[Camba]

I had just bought a S&W model 60, J-frame, 357 mag revolver and I would like to use some good loads that can yield 900 FPS.  The preferred bullets will be SPEER 170gr gold dot or SPEER 158 gold dot and 158gr SWC.

The reloading components at hand are:
Powder:  Bullseye, Unique, H110, 2400, Blue Dot
Primers:  CCI 500, WSP (I can get different primers if needed)
Cases: mixed Win, Fed, Rem, and other

I like to use this load for deer/small game within 30 yards for those opportunities that show up but you left the rifle/handgun at the camp.

Camba

[Daman]

go to hodgdon website and they will have loads posted for each powder and caliber.

I only use H110 out of those powders and the loads I am shooting were loaded 4 years ago so I don't feel justified in guessing what they are, but I will say out of my S&W and Colt the H110 and 158 grain jacketed are the most accurate.

158 SWC over around 3.4 grains of trailboss is nice.

[Camba]

Most of the reloading data is for 4" or 6" barrels.  I am hoping for some information on the 3" barrel type of revolvers.  I would like to get a 900 FPS out of the 3" barrel with a 170gr or a 158 grain bullet jacketed or lead.

I have my own reloading manuals but they don't offer info on 3" barrels.

Camba

[Doe]

It's ok to use the data for the 4" and 6" barrel you will lose velocity, your going to need to invest in a chrono to get an accurate reading.  Good luck!

[Mikey]

Camba:  I use a 200 gn cast swc over 12.4 gns of WW296 from a 3.5" N-frame S&W.  Granted this is heavier than you wanted to go but the pressures are lower.  My old Winchester load data shows this load to generate only 35k CUP pressures while the 158 gn and 170 gn loads go to 38, 39 and up to 42k cup pressures.  The factory velocity listing for the 200 gn load is supposed to be about 1335'/sec but I don't know the barrel length.  I would expect something less from a 3" but not a lot of loss and would expect the bullet to travel at better than 1k'/sec from a 3" bbl.  HTH.

[SHOOTALL]

multiply the vel. of the 4 inch bbl by .945812 io see what it would be in a three inch bbl. .909814 for a 2.5 inch bbl . these are for a 357 mag.

[Camba]

Thank you all!

I like the .94... factor to convert data from a 4" to a 3".  How did you came out with that factor?  Just pure curiosity.  Thank you.

Camba

[SHOOTALL]

googled vel loss in shorter handgun bbls  , I have read several articles about it over the years but could not remember the X .
 The short ansewer is in most cases the more you start out with in a short bbl the more you will have .

[Mohawk]

You had your chance, Shootall..... you had your chance.....

That was "Seinfeld" funny, though. I spilled my coffee reading it. Thank you!!!!

Mohawk

[mcwoodduck]

In Shotguns the rule is 5FPS for each inch shorter or longer than 28" barrels for 12 ga to 8".
For rifles it is 25 FPS for standard for each inch shorter than 24" to 6"
for Magnum rifles it is 50 FPS for each inch shorter  than 26" to 6"
I would guess Handguns would be more.  After all you are hacking off 25% of the thing that makes the speed.
My Guess is look for a load that will give you 1200 FPS to start out with.
It will sting to practice with at first.

[Camba]

I follow the advice of SHOOTALL and I found a few leads on the subject.  Here are some interesting articles and a handful of loads. I still prefer loads from recipies than factory loads made by Corbon, Bufalo Bore, etc.

Enjoy:
http://www.gunblast.com/SW-60Pro.htm
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/Model_60-15.htm
http://www.adjunct.diodon349.com/Attack_on_USA/The_Smith_and_Wesson_Model_60-15_357_Magnum_revolver.pdf

Please, keep then coming for more info.  Thanks.

Camba

[Graybeard]

No book and no theoritical projection is gonna tell you how fast your bullets are coming out of your barrel. Only a chronograph can do that. All else is at best a SWAG and could be in error by 50 fps to 100 fps in either direction.

I've not shot any of the 170s from my 3" S&W 60 and don't even recall chronographing anything from it. I mostly keep 125s or 140s in it and do not consider it a hunting gun tho it does at time accompany me on hunts but as a self protection gun in case of two legged predators not for game.

I kinda doubt you can push them fast enough to expand so you'd do just as well to use a good cast bullet of 158-160 grains or just a 158 grain SP not JHP.

[Camba]

GB,

I've just happen to have a few 170gr GDSP (SPEER) bullets available to reload and I was thinking on using them.  I have bought a few 158 gr GDSP and I will try some of that.  Again, I am only looking to get about 900 fps in the hope to reduce some of the noise level.  This revolver will not be dedicated for hunting; but I do like to shoot a deer with it one day if they get close enough like in bow hunting conditions.  I do have a good few revolvers in 357 mag, 44 mag and 45 LC that I can use for handgun hunting.  I like the S&W M60 so I can carry it while I do some walk around my dad's farm and be able to shoot a small game or a deer if it happens to present the oportunity.

Camba

[Graybeard]

Yup I carry mine on hikes as well. I'm right fond of it. Had the .38 special version long before they came out in .357 Mag and traded it on the .357. In the local WMA ya can't carry a .357 legally except during deer hunts so during squirrel season when scouting I take the wife's M63 .22LR instead.

I consider both more as snake protection than a hunting gun. The .357 is a much better two legged snake gun I'm sure but so far have never needed to use it tho once some folks caused me to have to come real close. One guy was trying to get his three companions to all jump me on a WMA deer hunt. I 'splained to them how that might not be too smart an idea. Right about then that M60 felt pretty good.

[SHOOTALL]

In my 357 i like 125 gr JHP . In a 38 its 158 gr lead SWHP  +P . If the HP opens great if not I'm no worst off than with SWC . I think the way a SWC bullet shape is makes it better than a bullet with a different shape . The band or rim on the bullet that cuts the nice round hole in paper works to an advantage with defense use. There was at one time 158 gr 357 mag lead SWHP loads on the market but I have not seen them for years . I in a short bbl gun they may work also. I guess some see things different but I like a chance that the bullet will expand and stay in the target , not passing thru. hitting someone or thing that didn't need shooting . And yes I know a HP can clog up and go thru. but failure of the bullet to work as designed is better than poor choice of bullet in first place. Please don't take offence in how I choose what I carry as it is my opinion and choice. Others make their choice on their opinion and precived need . No one bullet is really best.
 

[Mohawk]

Oh yes. I still remember my .357 158gr SWC running 1550 fps. You won't find those factory loaded anymore. That was the 70's TX Highway Partrol load. Excellent whitetail load! Would clover leaf a 3 shot string at 50 yds rested in my Model 19 4". Over the years the load has been reduced to 1250 ish and is standard now. The Rem Golden Sabre is good if the 125 gr full house is too much.

[southernutah]

My guess is you are trying to reduce recoil. If this is the case my suggestion is a light  bullet and reduced loads in Unique, bullseye or the blue dot. H110 requires full powder charges.  Might keep a few of the 158 loaded up in a pocket, easy to switch out.

[Camba]

......My guess is you are trying to reduce recoil. If this is the case my suggestion is a light  bullet and reduced loads in Unique, bullseye or the blue dot. H110 requires full powder charges.  Might keep a few of the 158 loaded up in a pocket, easy to switch out.....

Southernutah,

You almost hit the nail on the head.  I am looking for a load that is no more louder than a 38 special but that has a 900 fps and loaded in a 357 mag cartridge.  I could just use 38 specials but I don't like the 750 fps velocities.  I like a little more but not more than 900 fps.
Perhaps the 125 gr bullet may be the key for that as someone else mentioned.  I loaded some rounds using 170gr GDSP Speer bullets ove 6 grains of Unique.  The lad was not unpleasant but it reminded me of my S&W 629 except in a small package.  That load made a 6" group at 25 yars rested on the bench.  I was not able to check the speed but in a 4" revolver should have run at about 1100 fps according to the reloading manual.

Do the 38 special +P recipies work the same loaded in a 357 mag case?

Camba

[SHOOTALL]

So you want a round that is faster than a 38 out of a 2 inch bbl that is as quiet as a 38 spl ?

[Camba]

Yes.  That's it.  (my S&W M60 is a 3" barrel actually)
And I want it loaded in a 357 mag case rather than a 38 special case.
Since my m60 is a 357 mag, I do not want to use 38 specials and 357 mag interchangeably because of the carbon residue of the 38 spc will eventually prevent the 357 mag to be chambered or create higher pressures.

Camba

[3030guy]

Try Titegroup. I don't like the recoil out of my 3 inch sp101 when shooting full load 357s. I never chronographed my loads but they recoil like a 38 P+. IMHO good enough for the close range hunting I do. Blue dot also seems to recoil less than H110, in my opinion.

[WFN]

Here is a link to a thread with chrono and load data that compares same loads to S&W Model 60 3", S&W 1.875", Ruger SP101 3.06, and Ruger 6.5". It is interesting information although with the internet cannot be sure if 100% valid http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=121432

I have a Model 60 3", it is a great all around gun that is easy to carry. Recoil is stout with 357 158 gr! Each barrel of the same length will vary some in velocity with the same cartridge because of barrel to cylinder gap differences etc.

[mattbowen]

Camba;

I use 2400 in mine pistol and rifle, I use 2400 with 158 grain LRNFP Lee cast bullet I got that load from there website they also have loads there for 170 grain bullets

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=9&cartridge=28

I find the load accurate out of rifle and pistol I shoot 12oz cans at 100yds with the rifle and 50yds with the pistol

   

[Hank08]

Camba, I have that same J/ 3" and here's what I use. 185 gr. Saeco #354 GC and 10.4 Accurate #9 or 2400.  This load averages 915 fps on my chrono. I use a .38 case because with a .357 case and this bullet it's too long for the cylinder.
I could seat the bullet deeper but like to crimp into the crimp groove.  Noise isn't bad but it's better with earplugs. Recoil isn't bad with the Pachmayr compact grips. This is a very accurate load in my gun.
H08

[bubbinator]

See if you can find the Speer #8 Reloading Manual online or in an archive.  I believe they had a section on reloading "Defense Loads" fir short barreled revolvers.  My favorite was SR4756 and a Sierra 110gr JHC for S&W M-10 type frames.  Your more modern .357 should do nicely! Don't recall velocity for heavier bullets, didn't load them.  My favorite 357 bullet is a 140/145gr JHC/JHP.

[Camba]

Hank08,

I have the 2400 powder and I will give it a try.  I like this S&W m60 revolver so much but I have not gotten a good accurate load yet.  Mainly because I had been extremely bussy with work and school.  I am planning on graduating this Spring so that will open up a lot of my time again.

I have another S&W m36 J frame in 38 special and it is very accurate with almost anything you feed it with.  I want to develop this m60 in 357 mag so it can be my companion where ever I go.  I don't need to loaded to the max because I am not interested to see it worned down in a hurry.  A good diet of medium level load can make this gun last a few generations.

Thnak you.

Camba

[Mikey]

Camba:  I use the same 200 gn swc in my 38 snubbie as well as my 357.  In the snubbie it is loaded over 3.8 of WW231 and the load groups to 1 hole at 25m and rings the 12" gong for me at 100m (need to hold a bit high...).  You can easdily use the same load from the M60.  The 357 loading using the same slug gets about 1330'/sec at 35,000 cup pressure where some of the lighter loadings, like the 125 gn hps, climb to 42,000 cup pressures.  2400 powder can also be used with the 200 gn in the 357 for a reduced loading. 

My snubbie is a M38, Airweight, and uses only the 200 gn loading over WW231 without any problems or high pressure signs.  HTH.

[45-70.gov]

bullseye powder

with the heavyest slug

will be the quietest

i use 6 grains behind  185 cast  wfn.....but won't use then in my j-frame
the  ruger black hawk and the 619 smith  love this load

i use 3 grains as my generic 38 load.....very quiet