This is to make sure no oil is produced here, and gas prices goe out of site.

[351 power]

right now most economies in the world are either struggling or near bankrupt. and govts everywhere are scrambling to patch up the hole in the roof. doesn't matter what happens from govt the common people need to turn things around first. it's like the depression age people had to do. they were the original reuse, recycle movement and it wasn't to be green. it was to prioritize and control expenses. look after the important things first and eliminate useless spending. the whole economy needs an adjust, not just the oil/energy industry. avoid easy credit and see if things don't start to change one home at a time

[ironglow]

Buying Toyotas should really give our economy a big boost.

 
  Dogshooter;
   You are correct ! Buying a Toyota probably gives our economy a better boost than many other brands !
  The fact is many people need up be updated as to "American" vs "foreign" brands...here are a few facts to consider...

1) There are no fully "American" brands of cars (or trucks) anymore.

2) Some formerly "foreign" brands have much more American domestic content than the former "American" brands

3) As I stated earlier, I like the subcompacts. The "American" competition , the Chevrolet Aveo and the new Ford Fiesta..are both foreign made,
 The Chevy in Korea and the Ford in Europe, I believe.  If Chrysler starts to import the Fiat..how will that help ?

4) The last subcompact "American" car I had was a Ford Focus, 3 door hatchback. I won't do that again ! I was forced to trade it in before the warrantee ran out..need a list ?

5) Then there is the old complaint.."The profit goes back to Japan"   Correction; the profits go to the shareholders wherever they live and in the last 20 years the smart money went with companies like Toyota & Nissan...obvious to people who could read the market..

   Did you ever wonder just which automobile , by domestic content, is the "most American car" ?   Click onto the link below:

   http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/autos/toyota-most-american-car-brand/19528053/

[Conan The Librarian]

Ironglow:

Those are interesting mileage figures for the old vee-dub's. I got my info from people I knew that had them. I never owned one. They all said 25mpg, or a bit less. My uncle had a microbus circa 1967 and it got about 18 mpg. I distinctly remember the late 60s and early 70s beetles as being the only truly uncomfortable cars I have ever been in. It was like riding in an small airplane with the windows open. One time I had to ride in the back seat and literally had to lay down across the back seat because there was no place to put my legs except on the seat. Only good thing I can say about them is that they were good cars at the time, and the engines were good for powering air boats and dune buggies.

Now for real elegance in gran tourismo economy cars, I had a 1969 Corolla. That was an amazingly good car, all things considered. I thought it was drastically better than the beetles of the time, at least as far as I was concerned. 

[ohiobenito]

when studying mechanical engineering at The Ohio State University, we built a hybrid diesel chevy lumina that got 67mpg.  that was 1997.  These hybrid cars now are a marketing ploy to extract your cash.  I drive a 4cyl hatch back that gets 44mpg. Most hybrids only get a few more mpg.  just wait till that battery bank tanks.  Instead of being reliant on foreign oil.  We will all be reliant on foreign batteriies made in China.  I don't know what the answer is.  These are my observations.  I usta work as a tech at a jap car dealership, don't buy a hybrid.

[ironglow]

when studying mechanical engineering at The Ohio State University, we built a hybrid diesel chevy lumina that got 67mpg.  that was 1997.  These hybrid cars now are a marketing ploy to extract your cash.  I drive a 4cyl hatch back that gets 44mpg. Most hybrids only get a few more mpg.  just wait till that battery bank tanks.  Instead of being reliant on foreign oil.  We will all be reliant on foreign batteriies made in China.  I don't know what the answer is.  These are my observations.  I usta work as a tech at a jap car dealership, don't buy a hybrid.

  Conan;
  You may have noticed the cramping more than I did because I am a short legged 5'8".  Mileage did drop in the latter years because that aircooled boxer never was meant for the restrictions put on it by the eco-freaks.  Yes, the heater system was not worth hoots in my area, but the car was so economical, dependable and rough going capable, that I willingly overlooked the heater.

  Ohiobenito;
     The mileage of the hybrids is a joke as far as I am concerned. My Yaris will carry 5 passengers, 4 more comfortably and for me, gets 40+ mpg over the road.  Why bother with a $5000 bank of batteries ?  If the bonehead politicians would let the entrepreneurs drill opn our own reserves and press  hard for alternatives, we could be free of foreign oil, keep our money here and in the meantime develop the alternative methods.
   Alternatives would be developed if the govt would just "get out of the way" and give monster tax breaks for such research., plus tax forgiveness for the successful developers for several years following it's adoption.

[Conan The Librarian]

Ironglow:

The Corvair was a good car, no matter what Ralph Nader argued. Great handling. Economical. Pretty comfortable. One of my buddies had one and it did have a little problem: He went over some railroad tracks one night and the floor literally fell out from underneath him. He said it was like being Fred Flintstone but he managed to keep his feet up.

[ironglow]

Ironglow:

The Corvair was a good car, no matter what Ralph Nader argued. Great handling. Economical. Pretty comfortable. One of my buddies had one and it did have a little problem: He went over some railroad tracks one night and the floor literally fell out from underneath him. He said it was like being Fred Flintstone but he managed to keep his feet up.

  I had a Corvair Monza coupe for some time back in 1965.  It was anice car and since it was turbocharged, it had surprising power.  The only problem was when I tried to really use that power..passing or hill climbing, often as not it would throw that long, right angle change fan belt..clear off the pullies.
  I didn't accept Nader's hooey about the car then and I don't now..they had a good start, but Nader killed it.  Due to oil leakage, I did have to lift the car about every 3-4 months and tighten the screws that held the oil pan (really a flat plate). GM didn't have the experience VW/Porsche had in that area.  THe screws expanded and contracted with the heating/cooling at a different rate than the engine, so the screws worked loose.  VW/Porsche had screws made of a special alloy which heated and contracted at the same rate as the engine..no leakage

[Sourdough]

Ironglow:  I have a sign in my garage, it reads "VWs don't leak, they just mark their territory".  Never seen one that did not leak oil.  I could rebuild an engine, and no matter how meticulious I was to make sure everything fitted right and tight, they all started leaking oil after 500 miles.  The fact there was no seal on the rear of the crank may have contributed.

Conan:  I had a 1969 Corona, loved that car.  A little bigger than the Corolla, more power.  Cannot remember the exact milage figures, but do remember it was very satisfactory for the time.  Higher than any of my VWs had been, and a lot more room.  Got rid of that little car after it went over 350K.  Bought a new Corona the last year they made them.  Also had a Corvar Monza Spyder, gosh that thing would fly compared to the other rear engined or economy cars of the time (Except Porsche).  Someone borrowed it one night without permission and got hit broadside by a semi, if he had been in a big Chevy or Ford outcome would have been the same.

[ironglow]

  Sourdough;
   I didn't say VWs don't leak..I was just describing the leakage which occurred concerning the Corvair.  The aircooled VWs tended to leak at the pushrod sleeves..which were built with accordion type kinks to compensate.  Sometimes there would be some drippage as the engine cooled or if an O-ring went defective.

[Sourdough]

Ironglow, I always got rid of those corragated pushrod tubes.  Went with the solids and larger O-rings.  they did not leak as bad.  Always seemed to be one the seals on one jug would also leak a little.

Now the EPA has started refusing to renew permits to the oil refineries in Texas.

Something else I found out, as soon as the study is announced all access or use of the land under study halted.  That means no one is even allowed to cross that land, go onto it, or do anything on the land in question, period.  That means all that land is suddenly "OFF LIMITS".

Someone mentioned that the Federal Government is not allowed to own land.  That was circumvented by making it a condition of statehood for 14 western states that they cede large tracts of land to the Federal Government.  Texas was the last state that did not have to give up land to become a state.  That is why so much of Arizonia, Utah, Neveda, New Mexico, and others out west have so much federal land.  Half of the land ceded by those 14 states is in Alaska.  The Feds own 74% os Alaska that's roughly 274 million acres.

[ironglow]

  This is one of the great disgraces of our time. The 'hate America first" crowd want to kill our prosperity any way they can.  I doubt there is any other nation on earth that has anywhere near the  percentage of it's productive land placed off limits as we do.
   Unfortunately, we will continue going into debt to other nations while huge natural resources and production capacity deteriorates here...unless voters suddenly WAKE UP and quit electing those who would destroy our nation and put our children & grandchildren at risk.
   "Ecology" is just an excuse to destroy our economy.  If you have any doubts..just look what the leading 'ecologist-politicians' ride around in and live in !
   Then check further and find how many they have of each ...how many luxury cars and how many luxury homes..total hypocrites !

    No; destruction of America is the aim...ecology is the excuse...