WHICH RIFLE SHOULD I GET?

[Coyote Hunter]

Yawn!  The smart ones do.

The smart ones look for unbiased advice.  Yours doesn't make the grade.

[Swampman]

The .308 is still in use in machine guns all over the world.  I'm not biased.  I reccomend the best and that is all.

[ihookem]

I looked at a vanguard and swore it said made in Japan. The Marlin said Made in USA. It was  80 bucks cheaper. There is a person somewhere in a machine  plant hoping you buy the one made in USA. That person has a dream. That person someday hopes to own a house, have a kid to take hunting and fishing. He is putting out a gun as good, 80 dollars cheaper. Why would anyone not buy his product? Even if it is in .308,(machine gun caliber) it's the better deal for all of us.

[Minnesota1]

I own 30-06's and 308's.  If recoil is a factor for you go with the 308.  If you think on your elk hunts you will be shooting a lot further then go with the 06'.  If you think you will want to use heavy bullets other than the 150-165 gr. bullets I'd go with the 06'.  I have a Marlin in 270 and it is a great rifle and the pad they have on their rifles softens the felt recoil quite a bit over my browning 270.  I have handled quite a few Vanguards and they seem like nice rifles. I'll probably own one some day.  I'd go with how they feel in your hands.  I didn't like the square feel of the Vanguard forearm and I don't particularly care for the Monte Carlo type stocks/cheek piece.  Both will shot accurately and are great values.  Just look at how far you feel comfortable shooting and if a few hundred yards or so is yours than either would work and I'd probably go with the 308.  Good luck, you can't go wrong with either.

[billyjack]

Both are good rifles get what feels the best to you and puy a good scope on it.

[Minnesota1]

Don't forget to look at the Remington 700 ADL as well.  They are usually under $400 and they shoot great and I recently tried a bunch of triggers on the new ones, my brother in law wanted a rifle so I was helping him, and all of them broke crisp and clean.  I was shocked!  All rifles have come a long way in a short amount of time!

[ihookem]

I have 2 700's and neither are as accurate as the older 700's I've owned. Some think Remington has lost it's edge. I think they did too. My latest 700 can't do 2" at 100 yds and 5" @ 200 yds. My older ones did less than moa easy and back then it was amazing. For less money you can get a more accurate gun in most cases a Savage. I might even trade my Rem. 700 in for a Marlin. Should be almost even up and am sure the Savage will do better than moa.

[mannyrock]

   OK, here's some advice that nobody has given you.

   I love the .308, but if you get that once or twice in a lifetime elk hunt, you will want the .30-06.

   I love short barrels, but they do not point very well, the muzzles wander. They also make for a butt heavy rifle.
 So, here is what I recommend:

       Buy the Marlin, with a 22 inch barrel, in .30-06.  You will be very happy with it.

       After you have hunted with it for a full year, if you still feel that the barrel is too long, then simply have the barrel cut and crowned to 21 inches, not 20 inches.   I love a 21 inch barrel, it is very handy in woods, and yet still allows the rifle to point smoothly, without a heavy butt.

       Swampy:  The 7.62 Nato was invented for use in machine guns, not the .308 Winchester.  The .308 Winchester is the commercial hunting version of the round, with a thinner brass case, and significantly more powder, pressure and powder.   I agree with you that the .30-06 is a better elk choice, but if an animal is properly hit, it will never know the difference between 2,800 foot pounds and 2,600 foot pounds, with a core-lokt or any premium grade bullet.  :-)

[Swampman]

I have 2 700's and neither are as accurate as the older 700's I've owned. Some think Remington has lost it's edge. I think they did too.

All the new Remingtons I own will shoot 1/2 MOA with factory ammo...........

[Kal52]

of course they do 

[diggler1833]

Is that one 3-shot group out of every couple of boxes of ammo?

I'm a fellow Remmy lover as well (although I believe that other manufacturers make good rifles as well) and I can't buy off on this one.

Lots of rifles can screw up and throw a good group out every once in a while, but a consistant 1/2MOA factory rifle is rather rare.  Even more rare is a consistant 1/2MOA shooter.

I've owned a couple of Remmys that will shoot around 1/2MOA after tweaking, but definitely not all of them...and I have pics to prove.

My latest (SPS Tactical) in .223 that I got about 2 years ago would only shoot MOA with FGMM after adjusting the trigger and bedding it in a McMillan A5.  Handloading 69gr SMKs brought the average down into the .5's though with the occasional five-round group in the .4s.

[diggler1833]

To the OP:

Get whichever rifle fits your hands/shoulder better.  Both are accurate enough and powerful enough to take whatever you really want at decent ranges.  It all comes down to which feels more natural in your hands.  Having to mentally adjust your body to the rifle distracts from focusing on the rest of the fundamentals of marksmanship.

[shvlhead.45]

"Actually, my understanding is they could never get the .308 Win to work reliably in a machine gun - but not for lack of trying."  quote by Coyote Hunter

Actually the 7.62X51mm NATO round is virtually identical to the .308 Winchester round and can be interchanged with some care.  The 7.62X51 is used very successfully in a number of US Machine Guns: M240, M240B, M240C, M240D, M240E, M240G, M60 and it's variations, the FN MAG 58 (the parent of the M240), and several NATO countries using their own medium machine gun designs chambered for the 7.62X51.  All work very reliably. 

As to the M14, a select fire main battle rifle; it is still in use by US Forces all over the world, especially in Afghanistan and Iraq.  The M21 back in it's primary role as a sniper rifle, regular issue M14s pulled out of moth balls and restocked, modified for optics and other rail mounted devices and issued to designated marksman to augment the snipers.  Oh, you ought to see the M110, a Knights Armament built variation of the AR10.  It's heavy but man is that baby sweet with all it's bells and whistles.  I know of one that took out some serious bad guys operating in the neighbor hood I lived in for a year; the "rocket man", the "mortar man", and several guys caught playing with IEDs and EFPs along the side of several roads around my neighborhood.  My neighborhood at that time was in the vicinity of the southwest corner of New Baghdad and the southeast corner of Sadr City, Baghdad, Iraq.

r/shvlhead.45

[diggler1833]

There is a pressure difference between a .308 and the 7.62x51 (SAMMI max psi of 62,000 vs. 58,000).  Generally it is safe to fire the 7.62x51 in a .308 chambered rifle, but I would caution firing a .308 in a military surplus rifle chambered for the 7.62x51.  You can actually find quite a bit of wrong information on the internet, so it makes it harder to understand occationally.  On top of it, there are actually some differences in headspacing between the two calibers, small as they may be.  Some 7.62x51 may not actually fit in a match chambered .308, but why you would want to shoot military surplus ammo in a match chambered rifle is beyond me.

Some good reads to get spun up on:
http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html (wrong pressure info though)
http://www.303british.com/id36.html

[GEWDOIT]

THE MARLIN ALSO COMES IN A .308 XS7 SO STOP ALL THE DEBATE ON 30-06 VS .308 AND GO WITH THE MARLIN IN EITHER CALIBER

[woodyed]

I agree with Gewdoit, get a Marlin X7 series rifle. You also might want to consider a 7mm-08 instead of the 308. Less recoil and better downrange performance especially at longer ranges.

[diggler1833]

Provided you are using a high B.C. bullet, and only at longer ranges.

The heavy for caliber/high B.C. bullets generally do better in 7mms that have a bit more oomph behind them because they can get pushed a bit faster starting out.  I can't remember the last time I saw a 7mm-08 purpose-built long range rig.  At one point I was really tempted to do a 7mm-08AI, but ended up going with a .260 instead.

The Marlin X7 is not exactly a long-range rifle anyways.

[tcencore3006]

Well it doesn't sound like you are going to be able to settle on just one of these based on the discussion that is being had.  Buy the Marlin in 30-06 and the Weatherby in a .308.  I am not sure what you would tell your wife though   Hopefully this solution will offer you some peace.  Don't get stressed, buy two guns!