Author Topic: Heroes....really? (Read 829 times)

WylieKy · « **on:** January 13, 2011, 06:20:18 AM »

Hey all, it's been a while. How've you been?

So.... This AZ shooting business. I read a headline of a story where Obama and congress were honoring the "Fallen Heroes" of the Arizona massacre. Am I the only person around that thinks that there is a difference between a victim and a hero? The woman that wrestled the ammo clip away from him when he ran out is a "hero." A firefighter running into a burning building to save a child is a "hero." A soldier jumping on a grenade to save his squad is a "hero." Catching a bullet in the back is a tragedy, but IMHO does not qualify one as a "hero."

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2011, 08:33:29 AM »

Words often used out of context,without merit, warrant, and meaning. There are a couple of words that come to mind they are indeed "Hero", and the other is "Racist". So often used when others would be more accurate, like courageous and prejudiced. After a while some words just don't mean diddly when they are so mis-applied. Oh well.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2011, 01:07:12 PM »

I have to agree Wylie.

nw_hunter · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2011, 02:17:12 PM »

Quote from: WylieKy on January 13, 2011, 06:20:18 AM

Hey all, it's been a while. How've you been?

So.... This AZ shooting business. I read a headline of a story where Obama and congress were honoring the "Fallen Heroes" of the Arizona massacre. Am I the only person around that thinks that there is a difference between a victim and a hero? The woman that wrestled the ammo clip away from him when he ran out is a "hero." A firefighter running into a burning building to save a child is a "hero." A soldier jumping on a grenade to save his squad is a "hero." Catching a bullet in the back is a tragedy, but IMHO does not qualify one as a "hero."

They (Politicians and news media) especially have cheapened the word hero.I agree with you. The poor people that fell, were tragically.... victims, not hero's. Another thing that gets my dander is the use of percentages quoted.

One Dr. interviewed about the Congress lady, said her prognosis looked 101% positive. I thought 100% was perfect?

powderman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2011, 03:47:08 PM »

I remember after 9-11-01 when oprah was calling all the murdered Americans heros and saying they were all in Heaven, but probably not all were. POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2011, 04:11:20 PM »

Agree. There is a significant differance. Victom and hero, very differant.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2011, 04:17:29 PM »

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2011, 01:04:50 AM »

Considering what it takes in the way of character and internal fortitude to perform a heroic act, it is an insult to call these people heroes. The people who disabled the kook are heroes. The victims were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

williamlayton · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2011, 01:11:58 AM »

The tragic victims should be remembered.
Heroes happen.
There are countless numbers in Normandy that were victims. Some of them gave their lives in struggle and some in support of the struggle---all are heroes in my mind.
AZ is not such a case--tragic victims and a couple of heroes.
Blessings

billy_56081 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2011, 01:15:58 AM »

Victims yes, heroes no. My friends son was serving in Iraq, he was 22 years old had no children and was single. He always volunteered to be in the first vehicle in the convoy because he didn't want the guys with children up there. He died June 16 2006 when a roadside bomb hit his vehicle. That is a hero in my eyes.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2011, 01:24:43 AM »

yep.. id have to aggree.. heroes happen when the right person is there at the right time..
i don t fault those that might freeze under those circumstances..some have one strength,
others another..
as to this thread ... these were tragic ,sensless deaths..this happen all over this earth every day..
only difference.. this was high profile figures..may thier families be comforted..

ironglow · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2011, 01:35:59 AM »

  It is rewarding to see that none here thus far have fallen for the messiah-king's rhetoric. Most were victims, a couple were heroes.

   So what did Obammy do at the big shindig event the other day in Arizona?
As he did in the recent Medal-of-Honor event..he had the Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid types and other sucky politicians filling the first 2-3 rows, while the 2-3 heroes were somewhere back in the crowd; forgotten.

Shu · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2011, 02:25:36 AM »

I spent the other day reading the Medal of Honor citations of some really great people. It always amazes me when you see what they did. Complete disregard for thier own safety, putting the lives of others (even strangers) before themselves. Where do these type of people come from, what drives them to do these things? Fortunately America is blessed by these types of people. They just keep popping up everywhere.

Try googling Medal of Honor citations for a really good read.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2011, 02:32:35 AM »

I agree with the OP . would add after the botched handling of the Texas shooting on the military base it seems some are falling all over themselves to please the press and voters this time . It has turned a very tragic time and one that begs respect into a dog and pony show .

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2011, 02:33:14 AM »

Billy:
Yes, he is hero. A sad story, but he was a true hero. He died protecting us and his fellows, and we can never repay him for what he did.

Shu:
I could not agree more.

Excellent posts. I get a tear in my eye when I read things like this.

ironglow · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2011, 11:12:35 AM »

We have an all-volunteer force now, when anyone joins the military these days, they just begin to enter the hall of heroism in a small way, simply because they already know they are very likely to go into a war zone. When they elect to serve in combat arms, their stock goes up a notch higher.
When they volunteer for elite forces..Army Rangers, Navy SEALs. Marine Special Ops, Army Special forces etc..their stock rises even more, since today they know they will very l;ikely go into combat and do it in the toughest places and under the toughest conditions.
Then, when they actually go into combat..knowing full well when he volunteered that he would face a serious enemy bent upon killing him....then his hero quotient really jumps..even before he does any heroic acts !

Spirithawk · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2011, 02:12:31 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on January 14, 2011, 11:12:35 AM

We have an all-volunteer force now, when anyone joins the military these days, they just begin to enter the hall of heroism in a small way, simply because they already know they are very likely to go into a war zone. When they elect to serve in combat arms, their stock goes up a notch higher.
When they volunteer for elite forces..Army Rangers, Navy SEALs. Marine Special Ops, Army Special forces etc..their stock rises even more, since today they know they will very l;ikely go into combat and do it in the toughest places and under the toughest conditions.
Then, when they actually go into combat..knowing full well when he volunteered that he would face a serious enemy bent upon killing him....then his hero quotient really jumps..even before he does any heroic acts !

Please don't forget those that make it home from war wounded of body and or mind, who get up every morning and go to bed every night knowing the war is never truly over for them, and nor will it ever be, but whom still keep trucking along regardless of the pain and suffering. Who still salute the flag and shed a tear when hearing of a fellow brother-in-arms falling by the way whether they knew them or not and whom die a little more upon hearing or seeing another freedom lost to unscrupolous polititions full of power and greed. Not all heros stand up and are recognised, some just stand up when called upon and are then forgotten. But that's all right. Didn't fight for praise, fought for freedom and so that heros of all manner would have a place to still exist.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2011, 03:14:06 PM »

Problem is that most of them don't know full well anything. They just say they do. They are young and impressionable and they don't even know why they are fighting. Even today most viet nam vets have no idea why the us was in that war, and most who were previous wars cant understand the current wars because it is unlike what they thought of as war.

Shu · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2011, 03:27:51 PM »

Conan, I have to respectfully disagree. I know personally several young men and women who have voluntered for tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. These men and women have done tours in both theaters and wish to go back. When talking with them, they say it is becuase it is the right thing to do.

The Seargent who returned the body of my brother in law, finished 2 tours in Iraq voluntarily. This was an incredible young man. When asked why he wanted to go back, he said "my brothers are there and we haven't finished the job".

I believe America is very fortunate to have heroes.

Back to the OP's statement, yes I agree with you 100% and apologize for hi jacking your thread.

ironglow · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2011, 05:08:54 AM »

Spirithawk;
  You are correct..many of them live in a 'heroic' way every day.

  Conan;
  I must join Shu in disagreeing. I have young friends and relation who are presently serving. Somewhere, folks get the idea that the young people who join the military today are somehow not as bright or promising as those who avoid it. Nothing could be further from the truth; actual investigation shows that on average the young people in the military are some notches above those who stayed behind. The military no longer takes "just anybody"..in fact, they are quite selective. Elite, special ops forces demand a well above average IQ. One thing for certain..our troops are more professional than ever, and certainly NOT the mindless automatons some who are uninformed, think they are !
   I think of three especially...
  1) A young friend of mine, a member of my church family, is an Army Ranger..he not only enlisted in the Army, he also in full knowledge volunteered for the Rangers and has served several deployments and special missions in combat. Very intelligent and obviously, brave.
2) Another young, fellow church member is a Marine who's specialty is with the dogs..searching for bombs, IEDs and any explosives. He has served a couple deployments to Afghanistan, is stateside now and has "adopted" his dog. He will be working on presidential details..I presume he will be searching areas prior to presidential visits. Needless to say, he also is brave..and has an award for valor in the works.
3) My grandson..Marine Special Operations.. served in the Ramadi/Fallujhah area when they were extremely hot.. Clearing terrorist "safe houses" which, obviously were not safe for terrorists, doing 'sneaky Pete' (sudden raids) operations and opne of two designated snipers for his unit..having experienced one-on-one sniper exchanges (a "High Noon" moment). Obviously brave..

   I'm not saying these are the qualifications for all elite troops, but it seems these three shared some common criteria, namely;

  1) All three are well above average intelligence.

2) All three have always had a spirit of 'daring-do'.

3) All three are dedicated, born-again Christians.

4) All three were brought up in homes which maintained discipline, and respect for elders.

5) All three are especially strong, both physically and mentally.

   ...Far from the picture some uninformed people attempt to perpetuate.

Wylie..Sorry for hijacking the thread but I felt the need to answer what I think are some erroneous ideas.

Shu · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2011, 08:33:10 AM »

+1 Ironglow

We should never forget any of our heroes, those who come back wounded, those who did not recieve recogonition for there acts, all those who put on a uniform, and those who were victims to tyrants, terrorists.