Author Topic: Chokes for short barrels (Read 2268 times)

grandpas gun · « **on:** October 10, 2010, 11:35:31 AM »

Has anyone ever had a short barrel, anywhere from 18.5" up to maybe 24", tapped for choke tubes? If so, what was the result? Satisfactory response? I have a 30" full choke barrel on a 12 ga. pump that I really don't want to mess with, but have always wanted a short barrel. I'm thinking of trying to find another barrel that will fit it in 20", or a bulged barrel that could be cut down. I do realize that the performance would not be the same as a 28" modified, but can some usefulness be regained for the field with, say a full choke tube in a 20", or maybe even a 24"?

Thanks

dukkillr · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2010, 08:27:37 AM »

What are you going to use it for? Most short barrels are for home defense. Close quarters and fast movement and so on. Shorter than 26" and even shorter than 28" will give a bad weight and funny balance to most single barrel shotguns. They wont swing well, and the recoil will "jump" very noticably because the gun has become back weighted. I've not noticed a difference in pattern, just a gun that swings poorly, handles poorly, and recoils poorly. My turkey gun is an 870 that has a 23" barrel and I hate it. Patterns well, but is completely useless for anything other than a single shot. Fine for turkeys but it cant be used as a backup duck gun, for instance. If someone would make a quality turkey gun in the same weight class as that gun I'd buy it in a hurry.

A final thought... I grew up in a duck blind. As I got older I guided waterfowl hunters, generally from a boat or blind. You do not want a barrel shorter than 26", (and 28" is better) anywhere near a duck boat or blind. These days I'll ask ahead and provide a loaner gun if it's some LL Beaned-out shmuck with a pretty little 24" double. It's just not worth losing my hearing over, and now I just do it for fun.

grandpas gun · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2010, 12:33:43 PM »

It would be for home defense, with a fair dose of snake and armadillo pest control thrown in for good measure. The gun is a New Haven by Mossberg, same thing as a Mossberg 500. The barrels will interchange, so that is why I thought I'd like to save the 30" full choke back and try to find another shorter barrel for close work. I really have no use for a 30", but I already have an old SxS with 28" so I guess that it would give me a bit more reach should I want it. I know that those shorter barrels come in only cyl, so it would only add expense to have it tapped and then buy choke tubes for it. Maybe would be about as well off to look for another 28" barrel with choke tubes and then chop the 30" back. What do you think? Most of my bird hunting is dove with a side of quail thrown in, no duck yet.

Later

PA-Joe · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2010, 12:51:03 PM »

If it take Mossberg 500 barrels Mossberg makes both a 21 and 24 in barrel with chokes.

tacklebury · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2010, 04:02:13 PM »

Mossberg also lists a 20" and 18-1/2" for 12 ga. 500 models.

http://www.mossberg.com/products/access.asp?type=barrels&section=access

sachel.45 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2010, 07:53:41 PM »

i've got a 21" barrel remington 870 20 gauge that i've been using for birds this years also shot quite a bit of clays with it and i didn't really notice much of a differece between it and my 26" barrel gun or my 28" side by side it balance pretty well for me. I like my snubnosed shotguns

Scibaer · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2010, 04:41:06 AM »

i've been following this thread.. i have a trade pending right now, my 26 inch barrel for a 21 barrel, for just that reason, they swing and handle faster and where i hunt, its a big more convenient to have a bit less barrel. the change in pattern is something i will check but i suspect that there will be little to no change at distances of 30 yards or less. i dont know the weight of the barrels or the difference in thier weight when on the gun in total, but that 5 inches cant make that much of a noticable difference in recoil .
i have used my 20 inch slug barrel as a comparison, and i checked the balance, swing and handling and recoil.. and i think the 21 inch vent rib barrel is just the ticket.

Scibaer · « **Reply #7 on:** October 23, 2010, 11:37:52 AM »

well my trade worked out, and i took out my new to me 21 inch vent rib barrel. remington offers it as a turkey barrel, but i threaded in a standard
flush fitting mod choke, and went to the woods. i ran some 7 1/2, 7, 6 and 4's thru it . the barrel patterns just like my 26 did. the shorter barrel carries nice, and handles just as fast. i like it, i cant see where there is any drawback to the shorter barrel, the gun balances just fine, and the recoil is not any worse or better then the longer barrel, and i dont see that the muzzle blast is any worse, louder or sharper.
the larger bead with the mid rib bead is not the optimum setup for wing shooting, but after a few practice mounts i had no trouble worth worrying over.
im glad i made the trade and now i have setup i want, and i dont plan on looking back

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2010, 01:57:58 PM »

Choke is choke no matter the barrel lenght.Only FPS/FPE change which will cause the pattern to open faster. For normal target shooting choke is over rated for me and can be controlled by pellet size and speed.

Scibaer · « **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2010, 06:10:11 PM »

well that was part of my concern, the shorter barrel and the loss of FPS with some of slower game loads i have..
but , there dont seem to be anything to worry about

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #10 on:** October 23, 2010, 08:56:42 PM »

I don't think you will notice much with legal barrel. I had a single shot with a 18 1/2 barrel includeing the polychoke.Worked for woodcock,rabbit and grouse back in the Michigan days long ago

grandpas gun · « **Reply #11 on:** October 24, 2010, 10:21:11 AM »

Thanks everybody. The general concensus is that a short barrel doesn't necessarily hamstring you while taken afield. I do understand the definition of "choke" and realize that it is only a measurement of constriction, but was inquiring about the effects of, say a 20" full choke as compared to a 28" modified. Ya'll seem to continue to have good results with barrels as short as 21", without feeling out of balance or deafened by the blast. Thanks for the advice and I think I'll increase my search efforts.

Take care

Scibaer · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2010, 06:01:39 AM »

hamstrung by the shorter barrel ? no infact i find it a benefit.
the choke seems to function exactly the same, regardless of barrel length.
i didnt feel any change in balance with my 870 with the 21 vs 26 inch barrel
the muzzle blast was not any worse with the 21 inch barrel as compared to my 26 inch, with the same loads.
i swapped my 26 for a 21 and feel very happy and i dont see any reason that i'd want to go back to the 26 inch barrel

i say, get yourself the shorter barrel, even if you have to buy a new one. you will probably like it alot.

dukkillr · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2010, 02:17:53 PM »

Quote from: Scibaer on October 25, 2010, 06:01:39 AM

i say, get yourself the shorter barrel, even if you have to buy a new one. you will probably like it alot.

I say the exact opposite. I doubt it will effect the choke measurably but I know it will effect balance and muzzle jump. It's, uh, physics.

Scibaer · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2010, 04:41:15 PM »

well, it may be physics, and it may be measureable somehow, but all i do know after actually trying it, is that i found no negative differences, none, by the ear or shoulder. having said that, recoil or muzzle jump of any firearm doesnt bother me, if it did, i guess i would not be using them.
armchair firearm physics and ballistics are fine but getting out there and shooting it, is the way to know for sure. i stand by my statement of getting the shorter barrel and trying it for himself , as i did.

dukkillr · « **Reply #15 on:** October 26, 2010, 06:09:12 PM »

Would it make you feel better if I shot video of me shooting a short barreled shotgun? Would that make my opinion less "arm chair"?

Or perhaps if I attached a picture of the pheasants I shot TODAY? Perhaps you and I should shoot some sporting clays together?

Tell me, at what point is an opinion valid, assuming that it differs from yours?

Scibaer · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2010, 03:54:14 AM »

dukkillr,
your opinions and experiences are 100% valid.

JPShelton · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2010, 12:53:43 AM »

Quote from: dukkillr on October 26, 2010, 02:17:53 PM

Quote from: Scibaer on October 25, 2010, 06:01:39 AM
i say, get yourself the shorter barrel, even if you have to buy a new one. you will probably like it alot.
I say the exact opposite. I doubt it will effect the choke measurably but I know it will effect balance and muzzle jump. It's, uh, physics.

Yep, it DOES have an effect on balance. I still own the New Haven 600 ct that my parents bought for me 31 years ago. It was equipped with a 28 inch vent rib "C-Lect Choke" barrel when new. It wasn't a very lively feeling gun and I really didn't get on with it well as a teen, though I was grateful to have it. I traded an SKS for a 24 inch vent rib Accu-Choke barrel back in 1990 or so and its been sporting that shorter tube since. It totally transformed the gun into a sweet handling, weight-between the-hands quail and chukar killing machine. So yeah, its physics, all right, and while I wouldn't like the feel of a Wingmaster with a shorter tube than 26 inches, the 24 incher is sweetness and light on the 20 gauge Mossberg / New Haven, in my view. I wouldn't trade that gun for ANYTHING now. As for muzzle jump, I don't notice a difference in the field or on the sporting clays course.

JP

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #18 on:** November 10, 2010, 09:39:21 AM »

I'll wade into this one...

I have a Moss 500 12ga and own 3 different barerls for it. A 28''VR with chokes, 24'' smooth bore with rifle sights and a 20'' VR with chokes.
The 28'' VR barrel swings fine but I use it rarely for hunting or clays. It's pretty much a closet queen. The 24'' is fun to shoot clays with and I've shot squills with it. It ain't so fun with slugs, though it is accurate. The 20'' barrel stays on most of the time. I have chokes from cylinder on up to XXfull. The noise levels are louder due to it being closer to ya, but if I do my aiming job right things fall. Be they rabbits, squills, birds, clays, etc. I've not noticed any real difference, when switching from the 28'' to the 20'', where recoil is concerned. Muzzle flip isn't that much different if at all.

I've had this gun for close to 20 years so I can assure ya I had some time with it. Get the 20'' barrel and have fun!

HWD

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2010, 11:04:19 AM »

I have chokes in 18 inch bbls , 20 inch bbls and 23 3/4 bbls . They all work great . I advise using the long briley tubes . My tubes run from cyl,skeet 1 , skeet 2, LIC , IC ,LM, M, IM,LF,F,XF,XXF and a couple in the .600's . I had a 30 inch bbl cut off to 23 3/4's ( works out on the rib support at that length) on a 870. I have hunted every thing fron dove and quail to deer ( deer was the main reason for the cut and choke install) . If I could only keep one it would be the 23 3/4 inch bbl.
I saw a choke installed in a cops gun with a 10 inch bbl. that threw a nice pattern of buck shot.

264fan · « **Reply #20 on:** December 18, 2010, 04:16:57 AM »

No need to worry about performance with the shorter bbls, most of the powder is burned in the first 18 inches anyway. Magnum loads take slightly longer to burn . If balance is an issue, add the same amount of weight that you remove to the inside of the magazine tube.

grandpas gun · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2011, 01:42:58 PM »

Ok guys just thought I'd let ya'll know, chopped that 30" full choke back to 20" and reset the front sight. I'm tickled with how it feels and swings now. That 'ole long barrel just was like swinging a fence post around, and now it feels much more balanced and not as what I'd call "whippy", settles just fine and seems rock solid. No noticeable increase in muzzle rise and only barely noticeablely louder. Just might one day chase down someone and have them tap it for tubes.
Thanks for all the advice.

Yak Angler · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2011, 04:56:32 AM »

I will be doing the same thing to my 870 supermag with 30" barrel. I plan to chop it to 23 3/4" on the rib support as was previuosly mentioned. i have a 20" barrel for the gun already but it is fixed IC choke which is ok but i don't like wingshooting with rifle sights like that barrel has. Shortening a barrel from 30" to 20" will not have any measurable effect on velocity, pattern is 100% controled by choke, barrel length has nothing to do with it, muzzle jump is more determined by gun fit than barrel length as i can't tell any difference between my 30" and 20" barrel but i have taken the time to properly fit my stock to me. It is definitely louder but i have gotten into the habit of wearing electronic muffs 100% of the time while hunting now and that eliminates the noise diference.

Can't wait for next years duck season because im fed up with the long barrel always being in the way especially when hunting out of my kayak. Glad to hear others are very happy with a similar set-up to what i will have in a few more weeks once my gunsmith re-opens.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** February 02, 2011, 09:48:42 AM »

If I might suggest have a mid bead installed at same time and save a return trip. Just incase that longer range goose comes along

. Also ya might need to play with sight size to get it where you want it to shoot up and down. I used 6the Briley full length tube with full length threads on the longer tubes and have had great luch with them.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #24 on:** February 02, 2011, 10:09:25 AM »

For a while I had one of the Browning BPS upland specials in 12 ga.
22" barrel. Strait wrist.
Neat little shot gun. It eneded up with my cousin when he was 12 as his first shot gun. he is 16 now and still shoots it.
The patterns works well, I used that gun for hunting, skeet, and sporting clays for a few years. the only thing is the short barrels slow the shot by 5 FPS per inch shorter then 28".
So the 1200 that is on the box is flying 1170 out of the gun. Nothing to notice.
I did notice with the short barreled guns I tend to look over the gun rathern than down the barrel till I get used to them.
Then they are breaking birds just like all the others.
I have a 21 or 22" rifle sight choke tubed barrel on my wish list for turkey.

Yak Angler · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2011, 01:31:52 PM »

Great suggestions guys. i will have to ponder over the mid bead for a few weeks. I had a prior shotgun with the mid bead set-up which i liked for trap shooting but i never bother with it for hunting. my 870 stock has been modified to fit for a 50/50 patern at 40 yards and the only way i could stack the beads would be to adjust to a different comb height which im not sure i would want to do. It would be handy for trap shooting in the off season though.

I have looked at the upland BPS. Very nice well made guns but far too pretty for what i put them through just don't have it in me to let it sit on the sandy,wet floor of my yak when im paddling into my hunting spots.

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #26 on:** February 04, 2011, 02:18:28 PM »

Mid bead is nice for trap setting up the figure 8 but the rest of shooting is not for aiming and in trap its really just to be sure the gun is in the right spot against your cheek