Author Topic: 45-70 Guide Gun Question (Read 2250 times)

Steve Pennington · « **on:** November 20, 2003, 02:55:12 PM »

I am new to this forum but have been on other graybeard forums. Now to the question, How good is the 45-70 guide gun from marlin?

I have the opertunity to buy one used for $400.00. It would be used for deer hunting in woods, hogs and black bear. Would this be a good deal and also is this a good choice for the intended hunting? I own several bolt rifles a ruger no.1 and several hunting handguns, but have the itch to try a lever action.

KN · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2003, 06:42:50 PM »

I have one in 450 marlin, and I love it. Very accurate for a brush gun. I put a set of ghost ring sites on it and it's really nice to shoot. It's a real whomper though. KN

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2003, 11:49:35 PM »

I have a stainless one in 4570 and a blued .444 and love them

Litefoot · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2003, 04:01:06 AM »

I'll dissent here. Hey, every coin has two sides. I didn't particularly care for the recoil nor did I like the ports. And on top of that, a levergun should look like a levergun. It should have a full-length mag tube. To me lever guns shouldn't look like carbines. I bought mine on a whim and we just never connected. I also live in the West and I hunt wide open big country, not the brush. So that factors into my feelings, too. I know I'm probably in the tiny minority here.

Lawdog · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2003, 09:43:20 AM »

Litefoot,

Quote

I know I'm probably in the tiny minority here.

Nope you're not alone.

I too see no reason for the Guide Gun. Lots of us feel the same way. Marlin dropped the ported version due to the complaints from customers about excessive muzzle blast. The added noise overshadowed any help it gave in reducing recoil.

Steve,

I like the .45-70 cartridge and in the Marlin 1895 model it is a great brush buster for deer, hogs and bear. You will want to take into account the rifle you are looking at and see if it is one of the ported models that Marlin dropped from their line. The blast is really something in them. If it was me I would look for a 1895 with the longer barrel. Less recoil and every bit as good in the brush. Lawdog

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2003, 12:15:57 PM »

Lawdog & Litefoot

Count me in that minority too. Wish Winchester would bring out the Black Shadow or Legacy with 24" barrels in .307 and .356. That's where those two cartridges would really shine, not in the short tubes they come in. I'd have one of each. Marlin might do well with a longer barreled 336s in those two chamberings also. If there is any kind of market for a .410 shotgun in those models...... well many of us do like our leverguns with RIFLE barrels on the long side.

Larry Gibson

daddywpb · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2003, 01:33:50 PM »

I know the 45/70 has a lot more recoil, but I have a Guide Gun in 44 Mag, and it's a nice little gun.

Bullseye · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2003, 05:19:27 PM »

I have the 1895SS, 24" barrel I believe. Never liked the shorter barrels myself. I have a Trapper with a 16" barrel and while it is compact it just does not seem to point and handle as well as a little longer barrel, 20" barrel would be a good compromise in my opinion. Love the 45-70 though.

Venator · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2003, 06:32:40 AM »

The 1895 Cowboy, in .45/70, is a jewel. The longer barrel is tapered toward the end, making the balance almost perfect. My Marlin Cowboy swings up to my shoulder as light as a feather - like a much shorter rifle. Muzzle blast is not bad, but it still kicks like a .45/70.

It has become my favorite rifle, when I hunt the thick brush of East Texas.

Sean · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2003, 10:46:16 PM »

I won't sell my Ported Guide Gun, ever. A lot of people have complained about the recoil and muzzle blast of the Guide Gun on the 'net. I would guess probably 90% of those people never fired one, if they did they never got out from under the roof at the range. The recoil and the noise are not what they are made out to be. I shoot 400 gr Speers @ 1850 fps, I find that easy enough to shoot and shoot well off the bench as my groups run about MOA. Sean

Super Rat · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2003, 08:04:14 AM »

I think the guide guns are neat. I think they are really missing the mark by not making the magazine tube full-length. It would make sense to increase magazine capacity in a back-up type gun. I would not hesitate to pick one up, try it out. If for any reason you don't like it you won't have trouble selling it.

Yes, muzzle blast and kick have been over-rated I'm sure. The .45-70 is not a "plinking" gun for most, especially when loaded up. It kicks hard in any rifle, but not so hard that you can't shoot it well, and get it sighted in real good. A ported rifle is louder, but yes it's much worse under a tin roof.

Having said that, I'll stick with my standard length Marlin .45-70, which is "pre-safety" and has the straight grip, both big plusses for me personally. It is VERY accurate.

Sean, I was shooting the 400 grain Speer at that same velocity as you, until I shot a deer at close range (25 yards) that jumped up out of the cat-tails...that bullet blew up really bad. So, if you use that load for hunting you might want to reconsider, I don't think it works very well for hot loads. Ideal for normal 45-70 velocity I think.

I have since changed to the 350 grain Hornady RN which I shoot at 1700fps.

Sean · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2003, 09:50:50 AM »

Super Rat, Interesting experience with the 400. The Moderator here, Coug2Wolfs, turned me on to those bullets. When I was working up loads he said he had fired many thousands of those bullets, I wonder if he had any problems like that with them?

Coug, if you read this could you comment on the 400 gr Speer blowing up at 25 yds? Thanks, Sean

Hook · « **Reply #12 on:** November 24, 2003, 09:31:29 AM »

Steve, I thought you only used handguns.

I bought a very well used Marlin (1975 production) several years ago to use for a brush gun. I cut the bbl back to 18.5" and removed the girly pictures that had been shellacked to either side of the buttstock (yea, I know...bought it at a pawn shop in south Georgia). About 6 months after I finished it, Marlin brought out the GG. Even so, I'm glad I have mine because I have no wish for an 18" ported bbl. This rifle will cut cloverleafs with my loads with the 405 grain R-P. I have had little luck with cast in the MicroGroove bbl.

Recently I picked up a 1895 LTD II with the ballard rifling and a 24" bbl to shoot cast with. Although I haven't hunted with it yet, I don't think it'll be much less handy than my homemade GG.

Venator, have you tried cast in your Cowboy?

Venator · « **Reply #13 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:12:05 PM »

Hook, nope, I have only shot store-boughts, and not even any of the hotter smokeless loads available. Even so, I LOVE this rifle!

Hook · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2003, 04:21:23 AM »

Well, I just took my first deer with the homemade guide gun I described above. Our season opened Saturday but with the combination of hot weather and my still feeling the effects of a recent back sprain, I didn't hunt opening weekend. When I found out a cold spell was moving in Monday night, I took annual leave and hunted yesterday. Saw a nice buck and a fat doe across the property line early on but got a shot on a 105 lb doe (about average size where I hunt) about 11:00 am. I was sneaking down a road on our lease and jumped two deer while standing in the middle of a wide opening. They ran through the trees but stopped on a skidder trail at about 75 yards. I really don't like shooting deer offhand but that was the only choice I had in this situation. The 405 grain R-P hit high and forward, punching through the ribs just above the shoulders. It caught the very front of the lungs and barely clipped the underside of the backbone. The doe went down but continued to flop around and hold up her head. Not knowing exactly where I hit her and that she was paralized from the shoulders back, I moved up to a tree to get a rest and shot her again through the neck.

Now, if I can get one more doe for the freezer, I can get serious about buck hunting. That's the beauty of our long season in Alabama. Put meat in the freezer early and hunt the big boys when it gets cold and the rut goes into full swing.

Steve Pennington · « **Reply #15 on:** November 27, 2003, 08:18:27 AM »

Hook, I do like to hunt with handguns but I also like to hunt with the long guns. I now have the guide gun. Haven't shot it yet but am looking forward to it.

Congratulations on the doe and good start toyour deer season!!

Thanks to everyone for the input. I'll keep ypu posted on my experiences with the gun.

doomonyou · « **Reply #16 on:** November 27, 2003, 01:50:29 PM »

Hello, this is my first post

Anyway, I feel qualified to comment on this. I have a GG blue with the ports. This topic is brought up at least once a day at the Marlin site. I will say that the gun is loud, I use plan old ear plugs from work. They seem to cut out most the noise. Many people talk about muzzle blast, I really did not notice any. As far as recoil let me say first I am the biggest recoil sissy you will meet! And as far as the recoil of the GG all I can say is not bad! Granted I am using factory 300 grain HP.The only other rifle I own is a Rem. .270 and I thought it had more of a sharper kick. Our family farm is some of the thickest stuff you can find in WV. and I love the size of the gun. I would like to try an unported model myself to see the difference. I also have a Luepold VX 111 1.5x5 on it. I chated with coug a few years ago and he answered every question I had.

akpls · « **Reply #17 on:** November 29, 2003, 07:15:43 AM »

My GG in .450M has become my favorite "grab it and go" gun. With a box of the factory loads I can be out the door and hunting anything that walks here. Well, I do have better handload choices for brown bear, but they would still work I believe. The short barrel is ideal for getting through the alder and willow brush I seem to find myself in too often. I've also shot moose out to 250 yards with it. As for muzzle blast and noise, I picked up a portable sound pressure meter (measures db) and have been taking readings at the range when I shoot. FWIW, my GG is not the loudest gun I've come across so far. That honor belongs to a BOSS equipped Browning in 30-06. An unported 300 RUM also outdid the GG. Now that hunting season is over I plan to try a few more things with the db meter and hopefully post some results here someday.

Sure-Shot · « **Reply #18 on:** November 29, 2003, 08:38:41 AM »

As an aside to the question about a 45-70 guide gun, Marlin is rebarreling them for anyone who does not like the ports for a $25.00 labor cost. No charge for the barrel. Personnaly I have the 24" barrel on my 45-70 and bought the 450 in a guide gun. The ports do add to the noise. I had mine cut and recrowned because of it. It is now a 17" barrel and I love it. The advantage to the 45-70 is over the counter ammo for those who don't reload that goes from mild to wild. I added a decelerator pad to my guide gun and I can shoot the factory loads all afternoon with no problems. It sounds like a reasonable buy and I am sure you will like it especially if you pack it all day.

Nanook 450 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 08, 2004, 07:42:35 AM »

The short, stiffer barrel on the guide gun makes for a very accurate rifle. If recoil is a problem, after market recoil pads can solve that problem. You might ask $350 - $375, $400 is only $25 less than I paid for mine new. Have not had to use more than one bullet on two hogs and a buck with my 450 - don't see the need for extra capacity, but some have cut down a cowboy mag tube and gained room for an additional round or two.

Riflemanz · « **Reply #20 on:** February 08, 2004, 12:47:27 PM »

I paid $419 NIB for my 45-70 guide gun.$400 sounds too much.The guide gun is really fun to shoot.I did install a pachmayr decellerator recoil pad and a leupold 1x4 20mm scope.It will knock the snot out of any animal you hunt.Check out Vince Lupo and his marlin levergun.

tubbythetuba · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:41:15 PM »

I wouldn't trade my 1895GS w/ports for anything....ever! With factory Federal 300s, that is enough for anything short of the big bears and about anything at all in the lower 48. Factory 405s are just as good, but have lots more drop after 100yds. Get the Garrett Hammerheads and the world is your oyster.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2004, 08:22:35 AM »

I too got in on the 45-70 with ports craze and wouldn't get rid of it for nothing.When I dropped my 10 pointer this past deer season,I didn't hear it or feel the recoil( course I have a decellorator pad on it) but I doubt even with that rock of a pad that comes from the factory I would have noticed it at the time. The rifle is extreamly accurate with my handloads of Nosler 300 grain partitions and also with some 405 gr. WLNGC from cast performance. Granted for those folks unlucky enough to be off to one side or another the muzzle blast is deafening,but for the shooter and anyone directly behind the shooter it is any loader than an unported one. The felt recoil is a-lot less for me(notice I said felt-recoil) and I attribute that to the ports doing their job in keeping the muzzle down and not letting it smack me in the cheek as hard.Follow up shots are easier too with it,so if you like it,buy it,if not ,get the unported one. Ported-Unported...either way is just fine for me...I may get another one and have a 26" stainless octagon barrel put on it...now wouldn't that be a hoot.

Mac

jaycocreek · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2004, 01:48:20 AM »

I too must chime in on the Guide Gun and it's handiness in the field.I have,like most,other calibers that I use like the .300 Win Mag and .270,but I find the 45-70 Guide Gun to be so much handier in the field and just plain fun to shoot.I am half deaf anyway so the ports on mine don't bother me.If I had to pick just one Rifle to keep(that will never happen)It would be the Guide Gun.

The Guide Gun and my .454 Revolver have woken the dead.I feel like a youngster again with a new hobbie.So much to be done in the reloading category.I almost have as much energy as Jarhead Ed and the rest of these youngster's.

Good luck Steve and you will never regret buying a Malin or any 45-70 levergun.There in a whole different league than our regular Rifles.

Best of luck.Jayco.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2004, 09:16:58 AM »

Steve -

"How good is the 45-70 guide gun from marlin?"

Bear in mind the new Guide Guns (since early 2003) have been unported. A lot of people don't care for the ports, others love them -- you'll have to decide for yourself if the extra blast is worth it.

As to being shooters... My 1895 is the standard 22" model and is very accurate out to 500 yards (the steel rams at NRA's Whittington Center). I don't need to shoot much beyond that!

"I have the opertunity to buy one used for $400.00."
Whether this is a good deal depends on a lot of factors - age and condition of the gun, modifications, etc. Does it have a WWG trigger, Pachmyer recoil pad, or other after-market accoutrements? Is it like new or is it a beater? Here in Colorado a new one goes for about $439 at Garts, Sportsman's Warehouse and Galyans.

"It would be used for deer hunting in woods, hogs and black bear. Would this be a good deal and also is this a good choice for the intended hunting?"[/b]

Yes.

Factory ammo from Win/Rem/Fed is at Trapdoor levels. PMC ammo provides a significant boost invelocity, and handloads will improve your options immensely. Last November I took a 2-pt buck at 192 yards and a 6x6 bull elk at 213 yards with my handloads (350g North Fork bonded @ 2183fps), both down hard with one-shot.

Fix your itch, you won't be disappointed.

BIG JAKE · « **Reply #25 on:** February 14, 2004, 04:23:59 AM »

Steve I just bought one for 350.00 it's in mint condition with a williams peep sight on it. It is also a ported version. I like the short barrel it makes the gun very handy. I don't miind the muzzle blast, I don't seem to notice it. I shoot 405gr. Rem. factory loads and they shoot great. As for recoil I hunt deer in SE Penna. were it's shotgun only so the 45/70 feels a little less then 12 ga. slug. I also have Winchester 94 timber carbine in 444 marlin which I think has a little more snap, it is also ported. I love mine and won't ever get rid of it. Hope this helps? :wink: :wink: :wink:

Jarhead Ed · « **Reply #26 on:** February 14, 2004, 10:08:56 AM »

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sensei · « **Reply #27 on:** February 15, 2004, 02:46:32 AM »

I own a 45/70 Guide gun non-ported. I put a Leopold Scout Scope on it and have not been disappointed. All I can tell you,.. I own guns worth Thousands and this is one my friend.!!! is one of my most prize possessions. Its awesome!!!!!!!!!!! I have done very well with off the shelf 300 grain Remington rounds. Recoil is not bad and puts the game you seek ON THEIR BACK!!! No looking for your deer. I have friends that use smaller calibers and it does more damage than this gun, but the knock down power of the 45/70 for the recoil is phenomenal. Its a Keeper.