Author Topic: Looks like four dollar gas will be back soon... (Read 1280 times)

Conan The Librarian · « **on:** January 04, 2011, 05:34:52 PM »

...and I blame Obama for it. It his personally his fault by creating a man made shortage. Just like the man made famines they have in Africa. Government working deliberately against the people make it happen.

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2011, 05:38:40 PM »

Does the man made shortage make him an undocumented petroleum executive?

St762

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2011, 05:41:56 PM »

It makes him a dictator.

torpedoman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2011, 05:44:27 PM »

Thats why the economy crashed the last time and it will do it again.

Screwbolts · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2011, 01:04:43 AM »

It has nothing to do with supply and demand, It has everything to do with the devaluing of the USD. Are you unaware that the value of money is in what they call a controlled decline! The fed printed 600+ Billion the day after the last election to Monitize our debt, it devalued out money by up to 20%, food, fuel, and everything else is going up!!!

Ken

gypsyman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2011, 02:16:41 AM »

Obama is a good little puppet. Soros and the like, will have a much easier time taking over this economy. Much like he did in Europe. Their trying to let us down easy, into a 3rd. world status. I don't think the powers to be have any idea the can of worms they've opened up. Greece and Italy have had a few riots, within a year or 2, this country will experience the same, on a bigger scale. gypsyman

beerbelly · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2011, 03:14:24 AM »

I think that is Obama's goal, once the riots start he will declare marshal law and it is all over for this country!

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2011, 05:49:18 AM »

I predict that a declaration of martial law will end the federal government in the US. It will be the final straw that breaks the camel's back and all out war will begin in this country. I dunno what the final outcome will be but it will make the previous War of Northern Agression look like a cake walk. It won't just be millions but tens of millions that will die.

Whatever comes out of it will NOT look like this country does today.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2011, 06:03:01 AM »

I'm not as pessimistic as Graybeard about it, but one thing that is certain: Our relationship with the federal governemt is about to change in important ways because the current spending cannot be sustained. This requires redesign of:
1) Medicare/Medicaid
2) Entitlements not related to Medicare/Medicaid, like farm subsidies
3) The military

There are no other options.

powderman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2011, 07:33:30 AM »

YEP. Marshal law, then collect the guns for OUR protection. Yeah right. POWDERMAN.

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2011, 08:21:22 AM »

If the O moves toward martial law, he will leave a legacy that will makes his presidential predecessor from illinois feel ashamed. I concede that Lincoln's views on slavery, combined with inflamed fears fueled by the Southern fireaters, created the War Between the States that robbed the United States of an entire generation of Americans, with over 700,000 dead soldiers on both sides. I also think that Obama would precipitate another secession crisis if he tried such a foolish stunt as declaring martial law and detaining American citizens. Such a crisis would inevitably kill tens of millions of Americans.

ST762

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2011, 08:39:56 AM »

Lincon's views on slavery didn't exist until he was forced to free the ones in the South to keep England and France from assisting the South .

A controled decline in the dollar , is that a saying like un documented worker ? Illegal and inflation is still the correct words .

Is this the spin zone ?

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2011, 12:54:03 PM »

Lincoln's views on slavery were part of the Lincoln-Douglas debates, and he went on record that he opposed slavery. he never came out and said he wanted abolition of slavery.

ST762

Hit or Miss · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2011, 12:55:54 PM »

It's not spin, controlled decline may be the same as inflation but folks see inflation as just "one of those things" whereas they see "controlled decline" and think about the people behind it.

On another note, farm subsidies. According to http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdahome?navid=BUDGET out of 149 Billion dollars only 17 Billion is slated for farm programs. The other stat that stood out was 10.1 Million people on WIC, funded by the USDA budget also. School lunch programs, research and many other programs make up a bulk of that budget.

My Dad always told me "never feel sorry for a farmer, no one ever twisted their arm and made them keep after it" but they do take lots of risk to feed the world. I knew one who ran a Million dollar operating note each year, that doesn't include his land or equipment notes, just to pay for crop inputs.

powderman · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2011, 12:55:59 PM »

$3.11 just down the road from me. POWDERMAN.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** January 06, 2011, 02:14:11 AM »

Quote from: SwampThing762 on January 05, 2011, 12:54:03 PM

Lincoln's views on slavery were part of the Lincoln-Douglas debates, and he went on record that he opposed slavery. he never came out and said he wanted abolition of slavery.

ST762

Did he not have a house servant ? was it not until years later that northern slaves were freeded ? If you dig deep enough you will find that the war was mainly over taxes imopsed on Southern raw materials to pay for the war of 1812. I know many northerers like to offer a moral reason for the war but it was enomics .

FourBee · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2011, 04:08:43 PM »

The local newspaper said we may be looking at $5.00 per gallon. China has resumed buying up more oil.

Sourdough · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2011, 08:33:51 AM »

I paid $3.67 per gallon last night to fill the tank on my little truck.

China has resumed buying oil, and all the coal they can get their hands on. China is not concerned about Global Warming, they need energy. China has contacted Usabelli Coal here in Alaska with hugh orders of coal over the next twenty years. Now the Obama administration is posturing to cut off access to the coal fields to stop that order from being filled. This posturing will also cut off all access to federal lands in Alaska meaning we will not be able to reach State land to drill or mine anything. It seems Federal Lands have to be crossed to reach much of our state lands. The Feds are denying drilling permits for oil and gas here in Alaska. One permit got pulled last week for a test dril in the Beaufort Sea, 70 miles off shore. Seems the courts are concerned the exhaust might affect villages on shore, and the EPA agrees.

By the way: The Alaska oil pipeline is currently shut down, for how long no one knows.

I am hearing a lot of rumblings about Alaska session. And they are getting louder, even many people I never dreamed would say it are screaming for Independance. Unlike other states we could exist as a sovergin nation. We have the resources to fund ourselves., and we are geographically seperated from the rest of the United States. We will gladly pay back what the United States paid Russia, with interest. If marshal law is declared, that is a distinct possiability up here. We could call it the war of Southern Aggression. Don't mean to knock you guys in Dixie, but to us everything south of Canada is considered the South.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2011, 09:17:38 AM »

Shucks, I always considered Juneau south.

Sourdough · « **Reply #19 on:** January 11, 2011, 07:59:36 AM »

Everything south of Cordova to Metlakatla is the Seattle Suburbs. After session we could ceede that area to Canada as a good neighbor jesture and be far better off.

Dand · « **Reply #20 on:** January 11, 2011, 12:19:51 PM »

For me gas went from $5.61 to $5.75 somewhere in December. I kinda wish I could see $4.00 again here!

With the Alaska pipeline shut down I wonder if oil will head up more?

Graybeard and others, I just don't share your pessimism, at least in the relative near term. But I'm pretty isolated here in bush Alaska. I don't agree with a number of things going on but to be talking martial law and armed uprisings seems pretty extreme. Are we falling prey to all the extreme talk?

What I DO fear that could take us in the wrong direction is this fresh talk of special penalties for assaults on elected officials. Assaults on ANY American Citizen is intolerable and I don't want to see any "special class" of citizens created. Reminds me of the book Animal Farm.

Sourdough · « **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2011, 10:09:46 AM »

Guys I complain about the price of oil, and gas. I pay a lot more than anyone in the lower 48, but no where near the price Dand and the other people that live in the Alaska Bush. Many people say, "Well if it cost so much to live there, just move". What people are refusing to realize is that is home for them. They were raised there, as was their parents, and grandparents. Their friends live there, their families live there, their whole lives are invested there. Many are moving from the Bush towns and villages, but they are finding it is not easy living in the big cities where things are so differant and so many people.

Had fuel oil delivered yesterday, 324 gallons. We used that much during the month of December due to the extreame cold. December was the longest cold spell -45 ever recorded. I replaced my boiler five years ago to a new energy efficent hybrid boiler. That cut my fuel consumption in half. Now I am thinking about all those people that have not switched and are still using those old types that use a lot more oil. No wonder we have such bad air here in North Pole and Fairbanks. You constantly smell coal and wood smoke when outside. EPA is having a field day taking measurements and planning our demise over our bad air. They will probably come up with something like restricting the number of people allowed to live here or something like that.

That 324 gallons cost me $3.16 per gallon, a total of $1024.47. That's one months heating bill, not counting electricity. Dand good luck buddy and keep warm. Rog

thumbcocker · « **Reply #22 on:** January 13, 2011, 11:37:58 AM »

Why is the Alsakan pipeline shutdown?

powderman · « **Reply #23 on:** January 13, 2011, 12:40:43 PM »

SOURDOUGH, DAND. WOW. We whine and complain here but we don't have to contend with nearly as much as you do. Stay warm guys. Charlie.

Sourdough · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2011, 06:00:43 PM »

Thumbcocker: There is a leak at Pump Station One. That is the pump station where the collected oil is pumped into the line and sent on it's way south. The line coming into the pump station comes in through a concrete wall into the basement. The pipe is encased in concrete on the outside of the wall. The pipe is leaking somewhere inside the concrete. It filled the basement of the pump station and when found they shut down the flow of oil in the pipe. They pumped the oil out and cleaned up the spill, finding out it only leaks into the basement.

There was major concern about the pipe getting cold in the -40 degree weather and the fact a pig was being pushed down the pipe between pump station six and seven. They restarted the pipe yesterday with plans to remove the pig today at pump eight. Pump eight is just 12 miles down the pipeline from my house.

The oil is still leaking into the basement, but not a big deal. It is contained there, and being pumped out by a pumper truck. Aleyaska, The pipeline service company is working on a by-pass pipe and when it is ready they will shut down the pipe long enough to hook it up, and by-pass the leak. Then come summer they will bust out the concrete and make permanate repairs.

The pipe is running at 1/3rd pressure. They are trying to pull down the collecting tanks just upstream of the leak so they will not be full when the pipe is shut down for repairs.

For those that don't know what a pig is. A pig is a device that is put into the pipe and sent down the pipe to clean the wax, sedament, and scale off the inside of the pipe. The flow of oil inside the pipe pushes it along. Anymore questions just ask. Rog

wreckhog · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2011, 02:46:54 AM »

I thought that the reason petro is pricey in Alaska is that you guys don't refine it there. You send it to California (what a ridiculous place for a refinery) and ship it back. if you just opened more refineries in Prudhoe Bay, it would be cheaper.

Any discussion of high AK gas prices should be countered by saying that you pay negative income tax; ie you actually get paid pretty well just to live in AK. I guarantee you that my state income tax is more than your home heating oil bill.

Sourdough · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2011, 04:47:12 AM »

wreckhog: Why would you live in a state with such high taxes? Personally I'd move! I lived in Maryland and paid high State Taxes for one year. I moved, I will not live in a state that has a State Income Tax. When I do move south I plan on moving to Tennessee, Florida, or Texas, they don't have a State Income Tax. Rush Limbaugh recently moved from New York to Florida due to high taxes. While in Florida this year I met many people that had recently moved, all saying taxes were too high back where they came from. They moved to Florida for tax relief. Maybe you should move, ever thought about it? If more people moved out of the high tax states they might get the picture and lower or do away with the state income taxes. Virginia has taken a look at that recently. So many people are moving out of state to retire they are now giving property tax relief to retirees. Still not enough for me. Alaska give me property tax relief and no state income tax.

As for Oil Refineries we have one down on the Kenai and two here in North Pole. I live about two miles from the North Pole refineries. They draw oil directly from the Alaska Oil Pipeline. The cost of production is high due to them not having Natural Gas to run the refinery, they have to power it with Naptha which they have to refine themselves.

I seriously doubt your taxes are that high. Our heating season runs from mid September to mid May. I have to get five to six fill ups a year. That's over five thousand dollers a year. Our Dividend ranges from $800 to $2,000 a year. Depending on how the money market and the price of oil does that year.

Dand · « **Reply #27 on:** January 17, 2011, 08:28:17 PM »

Thanks for speaking up for many bush residents Sourdough - what you say is very true for many here. But I must keep the record straight that it isn't exactly like that for me. I'm fortunate to be able to afford to live here tho its getting harder. I have a nice retirement but have gone back to work part time to cover some bills. I've lived in the bush since 1977 and I really don't want to get back to the road system if I can afford not to.

The folks who hurt out here the most are young folks trying to get a start. Housing is ferociously expensive if available at all. Entry level jobs don't begin to pay enough to cover rent, transport, and food, let alone any recreation. And they have a hard time putting together enough money to move out too! They are in a real crossfire - I think it is one of the causes for our plague of despondency that leads to heavy drinking and suicide - but it isn't just that simple either. In some villages we see big departures right after the permanent fund comes out. So our bush population gets older and we need young adults to pick up the reins but they can't afford to.

Back to my situation, there are an awful lot of expenses living in the big town. I'd probably burn lots more gas just getting my everyday business done, my insurance costs would go way up among other things. And I'd probably blow my cash in all the stores like a kid in a candy shop. I know my incidental costs would jump. But I do choose the life style here and value the small communities, and simpler life. Love to be able to net all the salmon I need. If' I was a better hunter I'd do ok with meat - I'm not doing so well on that lately. Today with the help of my son I got in 2 loads of firewood - makes me feel lots better. But cost of wood went way up. The local Native corporation has started a fee permit - used to be free. I have to pay $300 to cut up to 12 cords on their land. Plus snowmobile gas etc. But still it was a great day out, sunny, -10F with a little breeze. Really rough going tho as we haven't had any snow to speak of since our last thaw and its bumpy going.

Sourdough · « **Reply #28 on:** January 21, 2011, 11:41:04 AM »

Well the gas increase just hit here. $3.87 this morning to fill up the little truck. Gas in Anchorage is a lot lower than here in the Fairbanks area. It was reported yesterday, the folks down in the Seattle suburbs (Southeastern) are paying the same as Seattle for gas, after shipping.