Author Topic: new MMP "Ballistic Bridge" sub-base (Read 1793 times)

RandyWakeman · « **on:** January 16, 2004, 08:56:15 PM »

Brand new from Del Ramsey is the "MMP Ballistic Bridge," a sub-base for all .50 caliber MMP sabots. These are available right now from MMP.

They are designed for those using high velocity Pyrodex, Triple 7, and Savage smokeless loads who desire to increase velocity without accuracy loss. They load effortlessly in my muzzleloaders, and as you can see in the recovered example depicted, obturate and engrave beautifully. The convex dome of the MMP sub-base insures even pressure and no accuracy loss while offering additional protection for the sabot. I've tested these in a few guns, not to their limit-- but I can tell you that in no case was there any loss in accuracy. That's the latest and greatest from Del Ramsey, the sabotmaster.

They may well also serve as an effective heavy lead conical base protectant as well, but I've not tried that as of yet.

sheephunterab · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2004, 09:26:00 PM »

Yea, but what happens to BC? How fast did you drive them?

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2004, 09:35:05 PM »

Nothing happens to the BC due to the addition of a sub-base. I've not gone past 2300 fps or so, but others have already hit 2500 +.

sheephunterab · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2004, 09:41:03 PM »

Nothing happens to the BC due to the addition of a sub-base.

You know that for sure?

? Did you do a 100 yard chrono test?

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2004, 09:57:58 PM »

Asked and answered.

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2004, 03:52:52 AM »

"I've tested these in a few guns, not to their limit-- but I can tell you that in no case was there any loss in accuracy."
==============================================

OK... were there any situations within your tests where accuracy increased?

Why not just produce sabots with sub-bases attached or flaired accordingly?... why the need for an "accessory" purchase?

woodseye · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2004, 04:07:05 AM »

Quote

Why not just produce sabots with sub-bases attached or flaired accordingly?... why the need for an "accessory" purchase?

Very good question Triple 7.........I can see where being able to purchase seperately would benefit those using possibily another brand sabot or sabots purchased in a bullet pack already but why not to produce with the sub-bases already on as another option would make one think of added accessory expence and profit to be made. I would look for these to be a hot seller with the smokeless Savage shooters.

woods

Roger_Dailey · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2004, 04:54:07 AM »

Quote from: Triple Se7en

Why not just produce sabots with sub-bases attached or flaired accordingly?... why the need for an "accessory" purchase?

That's a good question. I have one guess based on how distressed (flared) the base looks.

It looks like the base skirt could be prone to "blow" just as the base exited the bore. From what I've read, a blown sabot skirt isn't the best thing for accuracy. It is my understanding the skirt will blow in one place and cause the sabot to tilt as it exits the bore. With this sub-base, the bullet holding sabot would already be out of the bore when the skirt blew.

In other the words; two of the main functions of the sabot (bullet fit and pressure containment) have been separated. Maybe like multi-tools; sometimes it is better to carry a pliers and a screwdriver instead of a multi-tool.

YMMV

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2004, 04:58:52 AM »

A very good question. The answer lies in the huge tooling costs necessary. Just in .45 / 50 configuration alone, Del Ramsey makes nine different sabots. This one base fits all those, and all the variations of his .40 / 50, and .44 / 50 sabots as well.

Underclocked · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2004, 06:44:29 AM »

I hate to ask this, but wouldn't just elongating the base on one of the other sabots perform the same function?

Kind of makes me think that Del may be making the "Full Plastic Jackets" for Knight.

woodseye · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2004, 07:32:00 AM »

Quote

I hate to ask this, but wouldn't just elongating the base on one of the other sabots perform the same function?

Kind of makes me think that Del may be making the "Full Plastic Jackets" for Knight.

Oh My UC.......your making this way simple and taking all the profit out of it :? On this ML'ing forum jackets of any nature tend to be frowned on..........except maybe "dinner jackets" :wink: Being from the far north I kinda like jackets on me and on my bullets too.............I guess you could say I like all jackets except maybe yellow jackets................but thats another story :eek:

woods

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2004, 08:46:46 AM »

Quote from: Underclocked

I hate to ask this, but wouldn't just elongating the base on one of the other sabots perform the same function?

Lost me on that one-- which is very easily done.

woodseye · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2004, 08:58:43 AM »

Quote

Lost me on that one-- which is very easily done.

Loosing you or elongating the sabots ? :roll:

I believe he's saying make the sub-base an integeral part of the existing sabot which would just make the base thicker rather than having to snap on the extra sub-base. All I can say is regardless of price they will be hot sellers and a must have for the guys pushing the envelope in ML'er velocity, will beat the heck out of 28 guage shot cushions also. Now it will be a question of maintaining decent accuracy while bringing up the MV to flatten out trajectory and increase energy figures at greater range.

woods

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2004, 09:22:56 AM »

To do that, he'd have to double the number of sabots he makes-- the tooling cost is wildly prohibitive. Consider that there are more white 12 ga. 1-1/8 oz. AA wads shot in one week, than all the muzzleloading sabots fired in the world in a year.

As it is, those who are already completely satisfied with the performance of their 90 - 100 gr. pushed saboted loads are unlikely to seek new sabots.

woodseye · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2004, 09:33:41 AM »

Thats a good point Randy and one that will make a difference no doubt. There will be a smaller group of potential buyers because many are quite happy with the lighter loads. Niche products always have a higher cost to bear because of loss of quanity. Like I said though......they will sell to the ones that need them no matter what. I plan on starting out with them in the Savage right from the start.

woods

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2004, 09:45:34 AM »

There's also the notion that most muzzleloaders really don't shoot all that much, and wouldn't want to buy bags of different sabots to fit all the bullets they might want to experiment with-- for those that really are interested in pushing the peformance level a bit. Plus, most people buy bullets pre-packed with MMP sabots.

As it is they are $7.25 for a bag of 50, including shipping, and a buck less than that if you order sabots at the same time. Not really the treasure of Sierra Madre for someone that wants to give them a test drive, and they fit all .50 cal. MMP sabots you might have. That covers PR Bullet, Winchester, Buffalo SSB, Hornady, Barnes, etc., to my knowledge.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2004, 10:57:21 AM »

Toby Bridges has put together his usual outstanding coverage, right here:

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/fieldtestsPage2.html

woodseye · « **Reply #17 on:** January 18, 2004, 02:45:50 AM »

Tobys article is a good read, sounds like the sub-bases are a winner and those new bullets look interesting also. Excellant BC and should have real good penetration and game performance. Always cutting edge info and the velocities and accuracy are just getting better all the time. Price isn't really any big deal on sub-bases and what they will help make possible looks pretty exciting.

woods

big6x6 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 18, 2004, 04:36:07 AM »

Just wondering if you have two sabot bases(sabot + base) with ANY rifle/load/projectile if velocity wouldn't INCREASE? Makes sense, less blowby.

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #19 on:** January 18, 2004, 04:39:29 AM »

Quote

"Just wondering if you have two sabot bases(sabot + base) with ANY rifle/load/projectile if velocity wouldn't INCREASE? Makes sense, less blowby."

===============================================

I'd be scared to try that using magnum 777 loads -- really-really scared in conjunction with a heavy sabot. Lots of bore pressure... I'm imagining!

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2004, 05:01:22 AM »

Quote from: big6x6

Just wondering if you have two sabot bases(sabot + base) with ANY rifle/load/projectile if velocity wouldn't INCREASE?

With the loads I've tested, velocity actually drops a small amount. The sub-bases weigh about 13 grains, so you can just add it to the existing sabot / bullet weight.

For the lightweight bullets, it is more of a % jump than with 300 / 340 bullets. You can see the decrease with a 200 grainer, virtually identical with the 340s for example. Even with flyweight bullets, it is 30 fps or so, and now you can burn more powder accurately. For the folks that are looking for that extra 100 fps without giving up group size, it is a good thing to try.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2004, 09:06:54 AM »

For those who may not have it, Del's contact info is here:

http://mmpsabots.com

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 21, 2004, 12:29:03 PM »

And more test results here:

http://www.prbullet.com/sub.htm