Author Topic: .236 Winchester-Lee Sporter  (Read 1533 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline .22-5-40

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
.236 Winchester-Lee Sporter
« on: February 11, 2011, 02:06:59 PM »
Hello, I see this is small-bore forum..so thought I would share my at times hair-pulling experiance with you guys.  For years I had wanted a 6mm Lee navy..first as a military, than as my taste in firearms changed, a sporter.  Looked for more than 35 years..most all had shot-out bores from the highly erosive early smokless.  Finally found a nice one..dealer said it had fancy wood, pistol grip, & checkering.  Dealer came down a little..said lands were worn round...but had a bright bore.  took a chance & purchased.  In meantime, I picked up Winchester Bolt Action Rifles..this had chapters on this not too common rifle.  When rifle arived, first thing I noticed was fancy grain in stk...jet black swirls in a honey colored background.  According to the book, only a few rifles were checkered.  Of those that were, only 3 had special order fancy English walnut.  The first serial No. for the English walnut was mine! 

    I almost sent it back!..I had wanted one for shooting, a call to dealer calmed my fears, I told him out of respect for age, I planned on only using cast bullets in it.  He asssured me that with care, it shouldn't hurt value.

    Now began one of the most difficult and hair-pulling excersizes in hand-loading I had ever had! Now you can't just walk into your favorite gun shop and pick up a box of dies for 6mm navy!...These had to be special ordered from Huntington's.   I cast up Ideal #245498, in my usual med. hard range-scrap...then worried about that fast 1 in 7 1/2" twist..some lyno ones.  I usually like to have a cast bullet .001-.002" over groove dia. for tight seal.
   Not this one!  That throat is LONG and TIGHT...In fact, it's groove dia.!  Even then, with bullets sized to match, when chambering, they were still being pushed back into case no matter how tight neck was.
   I finally had to size first band .001" under groove dia.  Even when seated way out with only last band & gas-check in neck..bullet still not contacting leade.  I finally was able to load some test lots using H4227.
 Bullets were tumble moly-coated & lubed with Lyman Super Moly.  annealed Hor. G.C. applied.
    I set up at 50yds. on account of the open buckhorn rear, & German silver blade front.  I used a Merit attatchment on glasses to sharpen up the irons.  Working up slowly and carefully, I stopped at 10grs.  with a 3/4" group to POA.   Recoil was very mild...This old gun is FUN to shoot!
   Now I wanted to try another powder...but what?  I remembered I had an unopened can of the then new TrailBoss....Permit me to stop here, and take a little side trip to....1970.  The Michigan road commision was building a by-pass through nearby city...homes of over 100 years were being leveled for right of way.  Now my Dad was self-employed & semi-retired at this time.  He was an inveterate scrounger.  Each day he brought truck loads of old brass and copper furnishings..thought scrap price would go up.  But the best stuff..to me anyway, was the old soft-lead pipe.  I used this to run ball for my Navy Arms .36 1851 Colt.
   One day he had an old stained and tattered box.  It was filled with  strange long tapered ctg.'s  with hardly any neck.  A long multi-groove lead bullet was seated in neck.  I pulled one & tipped case..expecting to see the famillar black.  Insted a grayish-white donut shaped powder spilled out.  I remember thinking at the time, as I poured it back in, that it must be an early smokeless like Lessmoke, or Sharpshooter.
   Fast forward now to present.  When I broke the seal & poured some TrailBoss out...It was 1970 again!
There it was...the same  grayish-white donut shaped grains!
  I called Hodgdon & spoke with technician.."You guys didn't re-introduce the old Sharpshooter did you?"
There was a very long silence...so long I thought he had rung off.  Then a drawn out "Maybe"..."But"..he quickly added..."Ours is better!"  Well isn't this something I told him, 100 years later, we have come full circle!  I got the starting load formula from him and tried the new TrailBoss at 50yds.  The first thing I noticed was even the start loads didn't smoke the necks..whereas,  ALL H4227 loads did.  Also, muzzle blast , and smoke were much reduced.  Strangely..at 10grs...the same weight as the H4227, I got my best accuracy..again 3/4" to POA.  I tried it at 100yds, and got a 2 1/2" group..not too shabby for open irons and 50+ year old eyes!  Man how I wish I had this 35  years ago..when I could still see!
  I needn't have worried about that fast twist..the softer bullets did just fine with zero leading..never did get around to the hard stuff.  Oh...The lands being worn round?...It seems Winchester rifled these with Metford rifling!  All-in-all, this was a very interesting project..I learned alot!

Offline rugerfan.64

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
Re: .236 Winchester-Lee Sporter
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 02:53:44 PM »
Very nice,glad you were able to shoot and enjoy your find.

Offline Barstooler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 157
Re: .236 Winchester-Lee Sporter
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2011, 07:49:46 AM »
I picked mine up years ago in 1968.  Traded an old .303 Lee Enfield for it.  The stock was broken so I had to make the stock.  Bore is in good shape.  I special ordered some RCBS dies and then found some loads listed in a very early edition of "Cartridges of The World." I worked up some loads using Speer 105gr bullets and IMR 3031.  I don't load this thing hot, and I remember the first 20 rounds I put through it, it was on a bench and I tied a string to the trigger and fired it from 15 feet away! ;D

I used to make brass by necking up 220 Swift, but recently I bought some brass from Buffalo Arms.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,760.html
The 220 swift brass worked ok but of course have a shorter neck than original 6mm Lee Navy brass.  It looks like the Buffalo Arms brass is made from resized 25-06 brass with the head machined down.

I took one white tail deer with it, but do not generally use the rifle much anymore.  I have never used cast bullets in it.  Glad to see someone else is shooting this fine old caliber.

Barstooler
Beverage of Choice -  Jeremiah Weed
Weapon of Choice  -  30 Mike Mike Gatlin Gun