Author Topic: ford engineering at its best. (Read 1549 times)

Lloyd Smale · « **on:** January 22, 2011, 12:10:38 AM »

no shock the guys here that know me but im not a fan of fords. My brother in law is (was). he has a 2009 ford truck was changing plugs and two of them broke. One was in the back. He said he found out ford uses a 2 piece plug and the breaking problem is well known. Only way to get at the back one to fix it is to remove the head and the only way to remove the head is to either pull the motor or take off the front clip. He was quoted 1800 bucks to have it done. If you own a ford you may want to have a ford shop do the plug change as at least then theyd be responsible if they break. Hes so discusted he said its getting fixed and then hes going to dump it and its the last ford hell own.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2011, 08:59:23 AM »

I like my Fords, but would no more attempt to get at the plugs than fly. I commend the BIL on even trying. Sometimes I wonder if the 100K service intervals have created as many troubles as they have cured, they sure haven't saved me any money.

Pity the poor soul who needs the top end done on their new deisel P/U. BIL sent me a photo of a Chevy he had the cab off of to do a repair on. I think Ford has the same plan as well. Warranty work for him pays fine, but think about when that baby becomes yours and yours alone.

spruce · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2011, 03:46:38 AM »

In hindsight it sure makes the $300 the dealer would have charged him to replace the plugs seem downright reasonable! Have to admit I wouldn't have the guts to try it myself.

None of the new vehicles are designed for the backyard mechanic. Years ago I did almost all the repair work on my vehicles, but now it's down to things like replacing the air filter, headlight/taillight bulbs, and adding washer fluid!

ihookem · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2011, 03:13:29 PM »

I don't think you need to change pugs for 100k anymore. I have an 05 Sunfire with 128k and have not changed the plugs yet.

torpedoman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2011, 05:34:48 PM »

went to change mine and could not find them so off to the dealer it went. And i'm a retired master mechanic with years as a line mech at different dealerships.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2011, 12:04:26 AM »

thats the kind of thinking that gets you into this trouble. Your better off to change them occasionaly so they dont set up in the head. I change mine every 50000 whether they need it or not.

Quote from: ihookem on January 28, 2011, 03:13:29 PM

I don't think you need to change pugs for 100k anymore. I have an 05 Sunfire with 128k and have not changed the plugs yet.

Lon371 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2011, 12:47:56 AM »

First off, I am Ford fan. I have had all good ones(knocking on wood)

There is a specialty tool out to remove the remainder of the plug.
http://www.denlorstools.com/autoblog/2008/11/ford-spark-plug-removal-tool-picture-of-fords-bad-design/

I do understand the frustration. I am not sure why some companies try to reinvent the wheel. Most of the time a small change would be better. I think there was a lawsuit over these.

Taking it to a dealer may have been a good idea. But I am pretty sure you would have paid for more than a tune up. I have dealt with several shops. If it is not under warrantee, get your wallet out

Lonny

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2011, 06:51:46 AM »

Quote from: ihookem on January 28, 2011, 03:13:29 PM

I don't think you need to change pugs for 100k anymore. I have an 05 Sunfire with 128k and have not changed the plugs yet.

You may give yourself coil problems by waiting forever.

saddlebum · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2011, 09:21:29 AM »

Seems like a guy that keeps buying Fords with all their known problems, (like the Powerstroke for instance), is just like the guy who keeps buying Remington 700s with all their known problems, (like the trigger group for instance).

(sorry Lloyd, I couldn't stop myself)

Lon371 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2011, 10:36:14 AM »

Built Ford tough WITH OUT YOUR TAX DOLLARS!

Lonny

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2011, 10:42:29 AM »

I think we can agree that each manufacturer has design and build problems. Also include in this design philosophy, what that company holds as important. As buyers it does good to research those things and find that which most agree with your beliefs.

What makes a vehicle good to one means little to another. I happen to think Dodge has the lousiest transmission available in most lines they produce. A buddy thinks a trans rebuild is a small price to pay for the convenience and use he gets out of his Caravans. I have never had a plug problem with my Ford. If it should happen I suppose that wouldn't be too bad considering it would be the first non-maintenance thing done under the hood in 197k miles ( 1 tune up and 2 belts). If I felt I had to do any and all repairs on that truck I would be pretty mad about engine placement. I happen to think Chevy has poor electronics and engines that are prone to wearing out early. I freely admit they get much better fuel economy generally speaking and at the same time give up nothing in power. I can buy a lot of gas for the cost of a trip to the dealer to get still another O2 sensor diagnosed and traded out. To which the Chev man says better than picking a plug up outta the ditch.

Like women it's good we all have different tastes in cars cause I don't want to be standing in line for a bus.

ihookem · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2011, 01:33:09 PM »

I didn't know it might give me coil problems, I'll have to look into that!

LunaticFringeInc · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2011, 03:46:05 PM »

I boke down and bought a Ford in 95, swore it would not only be the last Ford I would ever own and probably the last new one at that! As far as I am concerned, any vehicle made by the big three is a "disposable" vehicle these days. That being said my 95 has sat in the drive way for 3 years now and I am perfectly happy with my 89 Chevy Silvarado...at least its cost effective and worth while to repair.

scootrd · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2011, 04:24:50 PM »

My '04 F-250 V10 still going strong ... Not one major issue thus far . Gets regular maintenance. Only thing that set me back was Upper and Lower Ball Joints that finally had to be replaced.

Not to bad for a 7 year old truck considering I live very rural - off a dirt road , off a dirt road, off a dirt road, and pothole season takes a toll.

This had been my 4th Ford Truck in my life (1976 , 1987, 1995, 2004) never a problem with any.
I don't baby them either , They were all working Farm /haul/tow vehicles.
I also owned a Ford Bronco in my earlier Scuba days to haul Tanks and gear (Also never a problem )

Should I ever get the itch to purchase new again It will definitely be a FORD...Probably a F-350.

FORD IS Tonka Tuff !!!!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2011, 12:28:17 AM »

I sure wouldnt call the new trucks dispoable. Its rare that any of the brands wont go 200k and last as long as any jap truck. Yes they do have the weaknesses. Im a chev man through and through but wish theyd get off there duffs and design a good tranny for there gas trucks. Talk disposable and that brings back memorys of the chevs fords and dodges of the 70s. If you were lucky to get a 100 k out of motor chances are the body was about rotted off by then anyway and with the cost of buying gas with one of those 12mpg beasts and keeping it running it probably cost as much to run one for a 100k as a new one cost to run twice that. With the new ones there just getting broke in a a 100k, have twice the power and get twice the gas milage. Ive got two buddys with chevs that have 300k plus on the drivetrain with no problems. Both motors dont use a drop of oil. I dont think ive ever heard of anyone with a 5.3 chev motor that badmouths it. Up here where the plow trucks get a workout most guys anymore go with the duramax trucks just to get the allison tranny though.

oldandslow · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2011, 03:33:41 AM »

Buy a diesel and forget the plugs but not a Ford diesel.

Just joking. If I wasn't going to pull a heavy load I would stick with a gasoline powered truck but I do drag a heavy load every once in a while. No Fords for me as they have had too many engine and transmission problems over the years. No Dodges either. Great engine but it is still in a Dodge truck. Yes, Dodge builds a better truck than they used to and I've even gotten used to how they look but I just can't want one.

I love my Duramax and nothing beats the Allison transmission.

All vehicles are so much better than they were 40 years ago it's almost unbelieveable. I had terrible luck with a couple of Fords in the '70s and early '80s. I'll never own anything that Ford makes again because of that. Chevy trucks have been running 250-300,000 miles in the oilfield starting with the 350 engine. I don't know about Ford and Dodge mileage but you see a lot of them that have been rolling over those rough roads for years. You also see a lot of Nissan and Toyota trucks but not very many out in the oilfield.

ihookem · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2011, 12:31:19 PM »

Because Niece on and toyotas are driveway queens. Here is my case. Jap trucks are tuff and last a long time. They, on average don't get used like the 3/4 ton American trucks, no way. I see trucks with triple axle trailors pulling 3 cars at once. No Toy or Niece does that, they are usually empty. Some will jump on me saying " my Toyota pulls all the time." Yes some do but not nearly the tuff life of American trucks.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2011, 12:53:48 AM »

got to agree. How many toyotas do you see as farm trucks or trucks used by contractors or even pulling campers. Not to bash you guys who drive them but most i see up here are driven by yuppies and the most rugged service they get is driving to work or going grocery shopping. Dont get me wrong. Im not saying there not a good truck. They are and there full sized truck (or what they call a full sized truck) is probably plenty stout enough to do anything an american 1/2 ton truck will do but for a real work truck there not in the same leauge as an american 3/4 ton truck.

Quote from: ihookem on January 30, 2011, 12:31:19 PM

Because Niece on and toyotas are driveway queens. Here is my case. Jap trucks are tuff and last a long time. They, on average don't get used like the 3/4 ton American trucks, no way. I see trucks with triple axle trailors pulling 3 cars at once. No Toy or Niece does that, they are usually empty. Some will jump on me saying " my Toyota pulls all the time." Yes some do but not nearly the tuff life of American trucks.

Pot-Bellied Stallion · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2011, 04:14:35 AM »

I have often thought that automotive engineers should have to spend at least a year in the service department of a local dealership before they are allowed to draw the first line on any serious automobile design. That would give them some idea of what the mechanics have to go through when trying to live with their designs. Maybe then things would be different, especially for those of us who usually do our own maintenance.

ihookem · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2011, 02:06:43 PM »

Pot Belly, I have to agree. I have some grease fittings on my gmc 3/4 ton that get me swearing at those "worthless engineers" every time I grease them.

hillbill · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2011, 06:17:32 PM »

they are all good when they are new! but how can yu justify the price of a new truck with prices the way they are?i could go pay cash for one tomorrow. but there is no way i would.but then im not makin money off my truck either.i just drive to get where im goin and my older truck will do that.i made a rule a long time ago that i dont buy nuttin i cant fix.it has worked for me.i work with a bunch of guys always whineing about their new deisels and tritons and wondering where their next fuel pump or injector pump is comeing from.and heck they dont even pull nuttin with them.ive seen so many probs with the newer truks it has just left a bad taste in my mouf and ill be dmd if ill join their ranks.im just about a inch away from converting everything i own back over to points style ignition and mechanical fuel pumps.those were the good old days!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2011, 11:47:53 PM »

if you look at the a value of a new truck logicaly. there not a bad deal. I bought a new chev in 79 and paid 5 grand out the door but was only making 5 bucks an hour doing the same job i was doing when i bought my 06 for 26000 and was making 27 dollars an hour. Works out to about the same. Then you factor in the old 79 was a 350 stick that put out maybe 200 hp and got 10mpg and the motor probabably lasted a 100k if you took care of it. The new ones put out over 300hp get 20 mpg and last at least twice as long. Not even to mention how much more comfortable they are to drive. The new 4x4 trucks ride and handle better then the cars i bought did back then. Then you have to factor in what it costs to keep an old truck on the road anymore. My back is bad and doing mechanic work is out of the question for the most part for me anymore. I just had the front end rebuilt on my 2000 jeep and the bill was over 1500 bucks! For the most part while i was working i bought a new truck every 3 years just to keep a warante. thats out of the question now and my 06 is going to be driven into the ground but it sure makes me nervous knowing what the cost of maintaining an old truck is these days.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2011, 08:02:19 AM »

Yep Lloyd, these new fangled buggies are amazing. Point, I replaced the battery in the Mustang this morning. It was installed 7 years ago. The replacement cost $72.00, at $10 per year what am I gonna complain about. That's 2011 dollars at that! I seem to remember paying about $48.00 for batteries that would last 4 years, that was in the early eighties.

The sooner folks realize a car ain't done at 100k the sooner they will appreciate these new designs. At the same time they can better understand the price tag as well. I'm driving trucks (SUV's) with >195k on the clock and would not hesitate to take off on a trip to Alaska in either one, I can leave in a half hour. Who would have done that in their 1977 Blazer with half the miles and half the age?

I remember changing water pumps every 60k, fuel pumps at about the same time. Points and plugs at about the same pace as calenders, radiator hoses, belts, and exhaust about every 3 years. At the end of its life cycle you were a pretty fair mechanic on that model, heck you had done most of it twice. Best of all it almost never ran great, always good enough, but rarely great.

Some things don't make sense, but I'll stick to fuel injection, electronic ignition, stainless steel exhaust, radial tires, overdrive transmissions.