Author Topic: HERE IT IS! (Read 1472 times)

New Hampshire · « **on:** December 31, 2003, 01:14:37 PM »

HERE IT IS! The rifle I was talking about in the "cross your fingers..." post. It IS a hawken style. Have not measured the barrel yet, but its pretty long. It was rust that is on the barrel, not browning. The barrel will most likely have to be re-blued or replaced (at the worst.) I dropped my CVA bore light down there. The bore looks pitted, but the rifling is still pretty sharp in there. It is missing a wedge pin. Plus it is missing a thimble in the front, and the ram-rod is not origional (it looks plastic.) The front cap on the stock looks like plastic. Im going to see if I can get a brass one from CVA. Im also gonna give the stock a Tru-oil finish. The brass parts need serious polishing too. This guy abused these poor rifles. No need to worry, though, they are in good hands now. I hope my picture post, if not Im gonna give the address to see them.

The last one is not too good, but it gives you an idea what the general shape of the metal is in.
Its gonna be a bit of work to pretty her up, but she will look awfuly purty when done. Plus the work I put in will make me feel like she was mine to begin with. IM A SMOKEPOLER NOW!!!!
Brian M.

filmokentucky · « **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2003, 02:38:35 PM »

Looks like a CVA Mountain Rifle. Don't know if they still sell them, but they were pretty popular not that long ago. I believe parts are still available and it should clean up O.K. Good Luck.

River runner · « **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2003, 02:39:17 PM »

New Hampshire, Not bad really you should have seen one I re-constructed for a friend, 'cept it was a Kentucky style in .45. You'd be surprised what JB bore polish can do. It's a mighty fine shooting iron, and he picked it up for about $25.00, don't want to talk about the hours we put into it though. Good luck and good shooting. RR:D

Grump · « **Reply #3 on:** December 31, 2003, 03:33:58 PM »

Before ya strip all the rust off the exterior of the barrel get some fine steel wool,cotton rag and oil,work the rust down a bit. Might just have the finest rust brown finish underneath. I have a similar CVA rifle that I built as a kit 20 yrs ago. Didnt oil it very well when I stored it away.When I opened up the case a year later there was a light surface rust over the entire barrel. Cleaned it up with a oily rag and elbow grease. I had the nicest antique brown finish when I was done.GOOD LUCK TO YA!

New Hampshire · « **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2003, 05:06:32 PM »

Well I have just put a crap load of elbow grease, Hoppes #9 and a bronze brush in to action. The lock has a brown patina that is on there real good. I does not look too bad so I may just leave it. Im thinking of wether I should poilish the but plate back to its silver metal along with the trigger guard. I have a dremel and a polishing kit. I just dont know if the shiny parts would make the brown lock look funny. The barrel was origionaly blued, I know now. The parts that were covered by the stock show hints of it. I have the barrel looking like in the white with a brown hue over it. The guy had ir loaded. I have to pull the bullet thats in there. Believe it or not its a Hornady Sabot :eek: ! I dont know how this guy got it to shoot really good (from what Ive read before Sabots in patched ball barrels dont shoot well.....am I wrong?) I have some JB bore compound, so Ill give that a try once its cleaned up. Does anyone know what the Max Charge weight for this beast is? The guy has it stoked with 100 grains of Goex. Im pulling the bullet when I get a puller because Im not sure if I really trust the guy. As it is the nipple he has on there it looks like he used a pair of plyers to put it on as there is a bunch of marks all over it. I know that I can easily replace. The double set triggers are neat. But the sight is funny. One side of the rear leaf is shorter than the other. It looks like that was the way it came from the factory because there is still bluing on both tops. I think this gun is very workable. I sent an e-mail to CVA looking for parts, but because of the holliday I dont expect a reply for a few days. CVA Mountain rifle? Cool, that helps to know that. Thanks guys and keep the tips coming, I could use right about now.
Brian M.
P.S. Im gonna say it again, this rifle does not look to bad at all. Just needs some TLC

.

rich e · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2003, 05:16:23 PM »

yes, thats a cva mountain rifle, there a vary nice gun, most that I've seen were pretty accurate. I cleaned one up for a guy that was far worse than that,had to strip the whole barrel, and file the flats down to get out the rust pits, inside of barrel was horrible, but I plugged up the nipple. and filled the barrel with liquid wrench and let it sit a few days, then ran a brush up and down the barrel for a long time to free up as much rust as I could, didn't come out great, but atleast it was still shootable, I offered him 50$$ for it, but he wouldn't sell. I bet by now its in the same condition before I cleaned it up. The nose cap is not plastic, its pewter. I finally bought one this summer at a gun show for 200$$. in really nice shape, 45 cal. flintlock. Hope you can clean her up , there a really nice gun. By the way the barrel and lock were rust browned from the factory, not blued, thats why you see a brown patina color to it, just rub it down with some oil. And also the patch box and thimbles and butt plate are not brass but steel that was browned. Your gun isn't in as bad a condition as you think, it never did look like a tc hawkin with blued barrel and brass trimmings.

New Hampshire · « **Reply #6 on:** January 01, 2004, 02:35:23 AM »

OK, Im gonna leave the lock alone then. I polished up the butt plate and It came out pretty good. It now has a silvery look but not too bright. I could probably polish it to a bright shiny silver, but I think it looks good the way it is. I will do the same to the patchbox and trigger guard. Im gonna try steel wool on the barrel to see about the last of the pitts and patchy brown spots. I just have to get me a dang puller so I can start working on the inside of the barrel.
Brian M.

rich e · « **Reply #7 on:** January 01, 2004, 05:18:59 AM »

Have you gone to cva's web site and looked at a mountain rifle? The one you have is what they now call the classic, because of its 1-66" rifling its a patched round ball gun, they now make a cheaper one called a hunter, but that has blued parts with 1-48" rifling. I wouldn't strip/polish the trigger guard or patchbox, but rub lightly with a fine steel wool and then oil. the browned finish is a desirable finish for that gun. Looks like your gonna need to talk to cva for a front thimble, or did you take it off. I would also try to get the proper hickory ramrod for it, and use the fiberglas one for a range rod. You got a good buy on a 400$$ gun, restore it to that, don't turn it into a 100$$ gun.
http://www.cva.com/products/rifles/mount.htm

jrdavis · « **Reply #8 on:** January 01, 2004, 05:34:20 AM »

if its as old as mine I'ed take the lock apart and check the tumblers for ware...might need to be replaced..you see CVA locks all the time on ebay
I think L&R make a drop-in if you want to up grade. also the nose cap is aluminum not pewter...if you don't like it get a 1/2 lb of lead free solder and pour one...it will take about 15 minutes to do.
if your shooting round balls I'd not worry about the pitting too much...the grease pach will make up the difference. CVA made a target sight like comes on a Thompson Center

New Hampshire · « **Reply #9 on:** January 01, 2004, 09:17:27 AM »

I am waiting to hear from CVA. I did not touch the lock, but the browning had pretty much been worn right off of the other parts. I buffed the patchbox, but it is now more silver than brown, and the wedge pin fixtures had been rubbed silver before I had even got to them. The trigger guard looked pretty pitted so I polished it too. Im hoping I can get the origional ram-rod for it. I cut the black plastic one to a proper fit, but it still does not look like it belongs on any wood stocked gun. I scrubbed up all the interior parts to remove as much rust as possible. I then oiled the hell out of it. After all the scrubbing and such the barrel, and gun for that matter, looks better. Im still going to take some steel wool and try to "pretty" up the barrel a bit more. Will I be able to pull a sabot using a regular bullet puller? Its a hornady sabot he has down there.
Anyway what Im hoping CVA can set me up with is:
New Ram rod
Two thimbles (iId rather they matched than have one look funny.)
I inquired about a new barrel, but I do not think that will be totaly necessary.

Im not sure If Im gonna blue the metal parts that are now "silver" like just to give them a better wearing surface. Im more worried about the gun looking right than value. This is my gun now and it aint going no wheres. Its a beauty and I would rather hang it on a wall and use it occasionaly than see it gone. I will someday add some friends for it

. I really just have to work on that rear sight. It just irritates me when I try to line the sights up. Im gonna just file it, deepen the notch if I have to and readjust it.
Thanks for the tips guys, they are appreciated.
Brian M.

rich e · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2004, 09:59:55 AM »

the inlays for the wedge pins were originally silver, so the finish was not wore off.As for the patchbox and trigger guard, they were originally browned. Can you pull a sabot, you probably can, but is it seated on a powder charge, or stuck above a charge, is there a powder charge in it?? You need to know, if it was me I would make sure the bullet was seated on the powder charge and shoot it out. But if your gonna pull it, I would soak it in a pail of water[ take the barrel off, take the nipple out,and submerge the breech end in water and let it soak, so the powder is rendered useless] then try pulling. I'm sure its NOT gonna come easy, thats why I would shoot it out. Bit thats a decision you would have to make. If you try pulling it out, pour some oil down the barrel to help youslick it up some. good luck.

rollingb · « **Reply #11 on:** January 01, 2004, 10:26:01 AM »

"NEVER".... remove the breech-plug from a CVA Mountain Rifle/Kentucky Rifle!!!!!!!!!!!

CVA had ther own method of drill'n the hole for the "drum"/"vent-liner",... thru the barrel and into the breech-plug,.... and it's practially impossible to "re-install" the breech-plug so thet the 2-holes "line-up" exactly perfect upon "re-installation" of the plug!!!! :gulp: :gulp: :cry: :eek:

New Hampshire · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2004, 11:04:31 AM »

I am told that it does have a powder charge in it. I am told its 100 grains of Goex. Since I am not sure of the max charge weight this is my point of concern. I forgot to ask CVA the Max charge weight, it will probably be my next e-mail to them along with seeing if they can provide me with a manual. I Checked the patchbox. It does still have a slight yellowish hue to it, but it is nowheres as bright as under the patchbox where the finish was protected. I probably should have left the trigger guard alone, but its silver now, along with the buttpad. I think it actually looks nice, though Im still contemplating picking up a small cold blue kit. They matche the wedge pin fixtures. I left the triggers and trigger plate alone. Im assuming they were blued, but it actually looks almost like case coloring. It could just be redness playing tricks on me. Ive got some steel wool srubber pads and Im gonna try and sweeten up the barrel a bit more. This gun is really truning into a neat project, and I cant wait to shoot her. But like I said, Ive bot to get that damn sabot out so I can work on the interrior of the barrel. Maybe Ill just craoss my fingers and shoot it out. But I need to get a cleaning kit first. Im getting antsy just waiting. But hey good things come to those who are patient......right :-D !
Brian M.

NHANG · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2004, 01:56:12 PM »

How's your project coming? Any luck pulling the ball? I've pulled freshly lubed balls out of clean barrels with no powder in them. I can just imagine how much fun it is with a barrel that has rust working against the ball.

New Hampshire · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2004, 03:34:32 PM »

I need to order a puller. Unfortunately the local gun-shop has a bare minimum of accessories for BP shooters. Im going to order a T/C cleaning kit which comes with the puller already in it , I believe. Plus the essentials for cleaning. Like I said before, the gun dont look too bad. I oiled the heck out of it, so hopefuly it wont start rusting at all anymore. Once I get those needed parts from CVA (I cant even shoot the sabot out bacause its missing one wedge pin, and I aint that stupid,) I should be ready to start working the interior. Thats the last sticking point. Im pretty sure Im going to leave the barrel in its brownish like state. It looks kinda neat. But again, that rod has to go. It is UGH-LEE! Im keeping it just for a rnage rod. The thing does not even fit in the holder that well, Its awfuly tough to get in and out. It does not just pull out, you have to rip it out. The snow has really started to fall here, and the cold is setting in, so I dont know exactly when Ill be able to get up to my club and shoot her. But I will certainly keep everyone here informed.
Brian M.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2004, 07:59:27 AM »

Brian M,

Another source for parts is Deer Creek Products, P.O. Box 246, Waldron, Indiana 46182. No web site, but their phone no. is 765-525-6181.

I have been told that they bought all of CVA's spare parts inventory. Anyway, they are good folks. They put out a kit gun which looks identical to the Mountain Rifle. They also bought the rifling machine from Douglas Barrels when that outfit quit making muzzleloader barrels, and you should be able to get a replacement for yours if you need it. Ramrod and such are available there also.

You might think of getting a CO2 load discharger (Cabela's has them, as should most places which handle BP guns) to get that old load out. A ball puller screw into the ramrod or a range rod, and I have once actually pulled the fitting off the end of my ramrod trying to remove a dry ball. If you are going to use the ball puller, screw it onto a metal cleaning rod, screw it down into the sabot, then tie the road to a tree. It is a lot easier to reef on the rifle with the rod held by a solid object. As Rich E. said, soad that puppy first with water to make sure there is no accidental discharge while you are pulling the load.

You might also want to get some browning solution (try Laurel Mountain) and refinish the metal all brown. It looks pretty sharp.

Hope this helps.
-Kees-

New Hampshire · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2004, 12:04:55 PM »

Thanks for the tips :wink:
Brian M.

savageT · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2004, 01:41:57 PM »

Brian,
I'm sitting here reading your long story and just wanted to say I envy you! Sounds like fun on cold wintery nights. Kinda like working on old milsurps :grin:
Now, about pulling that sabot out. I own a bullet puller for 50 cal. and it ain't much more than a steel woodscrew with 10-32 male threads on the other end. I suppose that you can make one out of a sharp pointed wood screw, grind the head down and mount it on a wood dowl rod with epoxy or wrap it with wire or line and seal it with epoxy. If that bullet/sabot have been in there for some time, you want to pour some black powder solvent like moosemilk or soap and water mix and KILL that powder!!!!
Next, pour kerosene or penetrating oil down the barrel and let it soak long enough for the powder/bullet/sabot to get saturated. Maybe a good couple days or longer. Take out the nipple and pump some in from that direction as well and let her soak standing up for a good long time. Then, as suggested before...... tie the ramrod and bulletpuller to something solid and start pulling on that rifle. Good Luck!

Jim

River runner · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2004, 06:29:34 AM »

I agree with Savage on getting that sabot out, except I'd use carbuerator cleaner, maybe even brake fluid, as it'll eat the plastic out a little faster than kerosine.. RR

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #19 on:** January 06, 2004, 08:04:25 AM »

Never had a bullet puller that really worked well.

Another suggestion for removing that projectile would be to blow it out. If I dry ball, I usually put a little powder in the flash hole under the nipple and then fire it till it pops out.

However in your case, I would suggest blowing it out with compressed air. I made a little tool for my T/C's by stripping off the rubber from some tire valve stems. That leave a brass tube with the shrader valve on the other end. Then go to a hardware store an buy a cheap die to thread that to the same thread as your nipple. Then with the muzzle pointing in a safe direction put compressed air to it like you were filling a tire.

The other preparations mentioned by Savage about soaking the bore will help or be necessary.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #20 on:** January 06, 2004, 02:46:50 PM »

Now THAT is a great idea. Now would a bicycle pump get up enough pressure to move the load out, or would the sabot not seal well enough? Or maybe one of those emergency compressors which plug into the cigarete lighter of the car? Have you done any experimenting with these, since not everyone has a source of compressed air with them?

-Kees-

savageT · « **Reply #21 on:** January 06, 2004, 03:11:48 PM »

Winter Hawk,
NO WAY! What you need is about 100psi from a real compressor and airgun. About the only alternative is one of those CO2 de-loaders like Cabela's sells. You have to get a real good seal over the nipple. Going to a place like a tire shop and discussing what you need to do with an airhose perhaps would work.....but don't walk in there with a muzzle loader under your arm first!!! Woah! talk about someone going POSTAL :eek:

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #22 on:** January 06, 2004, 03:20:35 PM »

A bicycle pump does not do it. Although I have not tried one of those little 12 volt pumps for that purpose, they are supposed to produce over 160 psi, which should be enough.

I used my larger compressor with a tank, but there is such a small volume of air in the value, nipple and flash channel that I would think that it would work.

Running it at a gas station on their air pump would probably be a bad idea. When that projectile goes out, it flies out with authority, so make sure of where it will hit will not cause any damage.

savageT · « **Reply #23 on:** January 06, 2004, 03:27:57 PM »

Thomas K. brings up a very real concern!
I thought of something I use at camp. It's a red airtank with hose & gauge (from Wal-Mart) that I charge up with a small compressor I have at home. With the Schreider tip removed and blowgun attached, you could take it out to the range and unload that thing safely.

Jim

New Hampshire · « **Reply #24 on:** January 06, 2004, 03:46:48 PM »

Hmmmm, I have a compressor and a portable air tank. All I would need to do is get the air nozzle! That may be the ticket. I found that the CVA does indeed take 100 grains of powder. I was thinking of just shooting it off rather than go through the hassle of pulling it. But this may be a better option!
Thanks,
Brian M.

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #25 on:** January 06, 2004, 04:46:44 PM »

Brian,

If it was me, I would just take it out in the desert and try and shoot it out by tying it down to an old tire and pull it with a lanyard from a safe distance under cover.

That way it would serve an unspecified psychological proof load. However if you have been pouring solvents down the bore, you may have contaminated the powder charge.

If that is the case, you may try removing the nipple, then trickling in and tapping the side to settle down in the flash hole, a small amount of powder under the nipple to be ignited with the percussion cap. If the mail charge is contaminated it will not ignite, but the priming charge will probably push out the whole mess. It may take a few tries, but eventually it will go.

If someone had previously double loaded it, two sequences of the powder and projectile, and the bottom one ignites it may damage the barrel in which case you would have a good excuse to buy a good Green Mountain replacement barrel.

Omnivore · « **Reply #26 on:** January 08, 2004, 04:09:25 AM »

Brian,

I don't know what type of threads your rifle's nipple has, but you might be able to pump out the projectile/load with a grease gun. If you can find a standard or metric thread grease fitting that matches your nipple just pump it out with the grease gun. Then wash out the grease. I read that this is messy, but that it works. Just my 2 cents.

BTW, congrats on the rifle.

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #27 on:** January 08, 2004, 02:36:27 PM »

Omnivore,

That's a good idea on using the grease gun, you could get the die for the nipple threads and rethread a grease zerk and your back pressure when you pump the gun would stabilized.

Omnivore · « **Reply #28 on:** January 09, 2004, 05:50:49 AM »

Thomas,

My understanding is that many side lock nipples (standard and metric) have the same threads as do many common grease fittings. I know that the local auto parts place sells assortment packs in standard and metric.

Plus a grease gun is capable of of a lot of pressure. Works more like a hydraulic jack than anything. Surely enough to pump out a stuck load.