H and R Handi .45-70 rebored and rechambered to .50-90 Sharps

[.45-70Encore]

I am having my Handi Rifle rebored and rechambered to .50-90 Sharps. The .45-70 was perfectly adequate, but being an experimenter, I thought the old "Big 50" would be interesting, especially if I could find some decent load data for bullets (both cast and jacketed) ranging in weight from 300 grains to 450 (or maybe more) grains. The gun will have a .510" groove diameter for the 22" barrel and a twist rate of 1 x 22". My initial forays into loading these with smokeless powders will probably be with AA (or XMR) 5744 and IMR 4198. .50-90 loads for both powders are listed in the 12th Edition of Cartridges of the World. I also might like to experiment with Western Powders Blackhorn 209; they have published loads for the Big 50 online. The latter recommend an over powder wad which I asssume is to keep the powder in contact with the primer for good ignition. Several other powders come to mind including VN 120. I want to keep pressure between 25,000 and 30,000 psi if that is practical. I will be using new Starline brass and Lyman dies. There are enough commercial cast lead bullets of .511" diameter, but only jacketed Barnes Originals (of 300 and 450 grain weights) and some custom Hawk jacketed bullets of .510" diameter available. None of this is cheap of course as the brass runs about $1.80/per and the Barnes jacketed bullets are a buck apiece. Still, its easy to get out of hand with these ideas. So, has anybody else had experience with the .50-90 in the H and R Handi? All suggestions are solicited.

[NickSS]

I have fired a 50-90 in a 12 pound Sharps loaded with a 450 gr slug and 85 gr of FFG black powder.  It nudges you quite a bit when it goes off.  I fired 20 rounds from a bench rest and was done for the day with a good head ache due to whiplash from recoil.  It will be very lively in a 7 pound handy rifle.

[gcrank1]

FWIW, Please dont use an over powder wad to hold a partial case of powder 'back against the primer'; we have plenty of evidence now that it can, and does, result in 'chamber ringing' at the point the wad slams against the bullet base. Sometimes it happens relatively quickly and sometimes seems to have been cumulative over time/rounds, which may be dependent upon the quality of the barrel steel (speculation on my part).
In mind of this, I will no longer use them.
Now, a 'tuft' of a 'filler' is different than a wad; it fills from powder to bullet base and serves the same purpose, but, to date, I have seen no reported chamber rings from doing so. The traditional 'filler's have been carded wool and cotton, though some use Dacron (the use of Dacron as a filler is NOT to be confused with the often recommended use of it as a WAD)
Keep in mind the distinction between 'wad' and 'filler' and you will do OK.

[Smokin Joe]

I have a .50-90 built on a Handi stub. Forget the wad; forget the filler; get some TrailBoss. It works great.

[gcrank1]

Im likin' TB in my 45-70 too!
The 70% load is a powder-puff, but not a bad place to start, as Hodgdon recommends for start. Im up to using full to bullet base, uncompressed and it is fine (and also within the Hodgdon criteria).

[bikerbeans]

Hi & Welcome!

I have shot BH209 in 45/70 & 45/120 w/o a wad and had no ignition troubles.  The BH209 data for the 50-90 lists the load @ 112% load density so there would be no need or room for a wad.   Their data also has a 475 grain lead slug @ 1,750 FPS which is higher velocity that I can find for the smokeless 50-90 loads.  TB powder would probably cost a lot less than the BH209 but there is something to be said for a big puff of smoke.   Please keep us updated on your project.

BB

[.45-70Encore]

Gentlemen, thank you for all the interesting suggestions and info; thanks for the explanation regarding "wads" vs, "fillers", gcrank1, I have never been impressed by either means of stabilizing small charges in big cases. The idea of using Trailboss seems like a good idea also. I figure even with a .510" groove diameter, there will be enough metal around the case of the .50-90 in the Handi to hold a significant amount of pressure and therefore present a significant safety margin. Modest and safe loads are my goal; I really don't want to push the envelope of either the cartridge or the Handi. Here's what Accurate Powder website says about XMR 5744:
" Low bulky density and superior ignition characteristics make 5744 an excellent choice for reduced loads in many rifle calibers and in large capacity black powder cartridges such as the 45-70 through 45-120 and 50-90 through 50-120." Interestingly enough, they do not publish loads for the .50-90 on their current online load data pages. I have sent them an e-mail inquiring about 5744's use in reduced loads in the .50-90. XMR 5744 is a double base powder that is reportedly not temperature sensitive. Although not stated, it also seems to be insensitive to case position. As soon as I run some loads, I will get back to you about the results.

[Smokin Joe]

Grab a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. They publish pressure tested loads for the .50-90. Also, they no longer recommend using a filler.

[briannmilewis]

I have a great link to a do-it-yourself shoulder relocation (as in what to do after the recoil dislocates your shoulder), no need to call the paramedics. It is "www.recoilenoughtocrippleyou.com". Good luck.

[tykempster]

You know .510 bore means...lobbing some surplus BMG bullets. 

[jon f]

Google CBE , I have a few of his molds. One is a 340 grain .512 that works pretty well in my 50/70.
He's based in Sydney Australia but does send molds all over the world.

[bikerbeans]

Accurate used to have data for the "obsolete" big bore cartridges on their website.  They pulled the data, but I think you can buy it as part of their load handbook.

BB

[manatee1947]

Why not use a 500 S&W Also, once done, also check out SR4759, it works very well.