The 450 Sharps Express Transformation - Part 1

[AtlLaw]

Pictures, everybody want's pictures!

Okay, here's my 450SE (AKA 45-120) as it is.  The stock was shortened and a Limbsaver fitted.  Actually, Brie (AKA CWLONGSHOT) fit and ground it for me.  The buttstock bolt hole is filled with a (removeable) lead plug I poured.

[Flynmoose]

Looks like you got some nice wood there, or my glasses are dirty.
FM

[AtlLaw]

Actually that's some wood off my original NEF 45-70 from the 80's.  For the next pic I'm putting on the wood I just got from site sponsor GSI.   

[quickdtoo]

Just another teaser!!! 

Tim

[petemi]

Richard, she sure looks sweet....but I'd keep my eye a bit off that scope if I were you

Pete

[AtlLaw]

Just another teaser!!! 

Back in the day that's what the wimmins said!     Naturally, I just HAD to prove them wrong... 

I'd keep my eye a bit off that scope if I were you

Ya know, I worried about that also.     But with the Leupold's long eye relief I did't have a problem.  Well, there was that time I didn't hold it tight into my shoulder...    But I learned fast!   

And the fastest I ever got the 405's was 2K so I wasn't using real powerfull loads.

Here's some pics with the GSI stock and forearm mounted; temporarily.  They'll be coming off as soon as I take some notes on fit.

While I'm carving away on the wood, I'll give the barrel to my 'smith to shorten and crown, mount express sights and restamp the caliber as 45-120.

Ya know, that forearm looks about right for the 32 inch barrel so I still think I'll shorten it about 2 inches,(including the horn tip!   ) for the 28 inch barrel.     Let's take a look at it (the forearm) on my TC and see what we think.

I'll also have to pull the scope off and check the comb height for open sights.  Right now the height is about perfect for the scope.  I hope I don't have to compromise to make it useable for both.   

I wish y'all were here so's I didn't have to stop, type and post in between ideas!   

[quickdtoo]

That's alookin mighty fine Ricard!! 

Tim

[AtlLaw]

Here's the stock and forearm individually.

[AtlLaw]

I think so to Tim!     She's gonna look really special when she's done!

I did run into one thing though.  The bolt hole GSI cuts is smaller then the one H&R drills.  So, my poured lead plug doesn't come near to fitting.     I have 2 choices as I see it:  re-drill the hole in the new stock, or drill another mould and pour a smaller diameter plug.  I'm leaning toward the latter solution as I doubt it will be easy to open up the existing hole an eighth of an inch freehand with a spade bit...

'sides, I can always use the plug in the 500 S&W!   

[quickdtoo]

Or you can get an MRR that fits the hole! 

Tim

http://mpcsports.com/candhmercuryrecoilreducers.aspx

[rdlange]

You said the stock hole is smaller.  Can you still get a regular socket in there?  And how well does the stock fit to the breech and forend spacer as it comes from GSI?  Looking to get a set of theirs when/if my bonus comes this year.  Wondering how much fitting I have to do is all.

Thanks... Tom

[AtlLaw]

Or you can get an MRR that fits the hole! 

Great minds Tim, great minds!     But I've been so happy with the plug I cast that, for the time being anyway, I'll probably just cast another.  Remember, we (on the forum) talked about this at length.  I'd love to test the Lead  plug vs. the MRR with respect to percieved recoil at some point though.   

You said the stock hole is smaller.  Can you still get a regular socket in there?

Sure can Tom, no problem!     I used the same socket and extension to put the new stock on as I did to take the old one off.

how well does the stock fit to the breech and forend spacer as it comes from GSI?

I paid attention to that also.  Take a close look at the spacer in this picture.  I put the it on the action and then put the forearm on.  The fit seems just about perfect.  Same with the butt stock.

The pic is the GSI forearm on my TC.  The TC has a 28 inch barrel.  To me the forearm looks long.  Also it is shaped very much like a Beaver Tail forearm on a shotgun.  Hi-ebber, and day always be a hi-ebber,    with the finger grooves it feels very good in the hand.

Also note the barrel channel is cut undersized so the forearm is sitting low on the barrrel.  Look at the distance below the spacer the wood hangs.  Again, that's fine!  I love to whittle on and hand fit wood.
 
Another note.  With the 28 inch barrel, the TC's OAL is the same as my 22 inch Remington 700 Mountain Rifle and a bit shorter then my M700 35 Whelen.   

Look at the forearms together.  It looks to me like I can cut it back two to four inches (including tip) for the best esthetics.  Whatcha think?

[rdlange]

Thanks for the reply.  That looks like one of the 'odds-n-ends' butt stocks.  Looks alot better than the roll overs.  I really like it, and agree the forend looks long even on the longer barrel.  I like the beavertail shape, but I'm in love with the mannlicher, so that's what I'm gettin.  When I considered the beavertail, I thought about slenderizing the front half and adding a schnaubel tip, but the sketches didn't look right. 

Your wood looks really nice too.  Glad to see some close ups and hear the fit is good.  Helps me decide for sure.  Be lookin for the finished pics.

Be Well...

[Flynmoose]

Well, I cleaned my glasses and the new wood is going to look great!
FM

[mechanic]

I reckon I shoudn't get in a "keep up with the Richard" type thing.  It would be like the Soviet arms race, and I'd be the Soviets..............looking good there my friend.  May it be what you envision and more, and may it be the slayer of  many deer for many a year.........

Ben

[bikerbeans]

Only got the 405s to 2K in a 450 Sharps Express?!?!  That velocity is doable with the 45-70.  I think Tyler needs to visit you in your reloadin' room!

BB

[AtlLaw]

That looks like one of the 'odds-n-ends' butt stocks.

It is.  

Looks alot better than the roll overs.

I thought so also.  I was told the style I have is a special order item so they need some lead time, and money, before they mill it.  You can also pay for upgraded wood.  With the special order item and better wood this special order stuff can get pretty pricey.    But If I ever have to go with the rollover I'd just have to take a file to it!  A lot!  

When I considered the beavertail, I thought about slenderizing the front half and adding a schnaubel tip, but the sketches didn't look right.

I came to the same conclusion after looking at the forearm from every angle.    I decided that even the horn tip will have to be rather blocky and blunt to look right with the rest of the forearm.   

Be lookin for the finished pics.

It'll be a while!    In trying to gestimate the hight of the open sights so I could approximate how much wood had to come off the comb and cheek piece I mounted the peep sight on the barrel.  The comb height is fine for a scope, but way high for the H&R BC sights.  So, before I can finish the butt stock I'll want the barrel with the new sights mounted so I can only remove as much wood as necessary.  Gestimating isn't good enough!  

But, I can finish the forearm and do some things on the butt stock like fit the grip cap, pour my lead plug, finish the cheekpiece and shadowline it... such stuff as that.

Hi-ebber, and day always be a hi-ebber,    Those are subjects for Parts 2, 3, 4, and so on ad nausium!  

[gcrank1]

Ive had some wood projects take years; I use a homemade mix of about 1/3 odorless mineral spirits to 2/3 boiled linseed oil that I treat the wood with. If/when I make changes it touches up perfectly by just rubbing more in the reworked area. This makes for a great wood 'pre-treatment' prior to the top coats, BUT, you cannot try to stain the wood after using it. This is fine for me because I have come to appreciate just enhancing the natural colors and grain in most cases. The probem is if you really need to recolor one piece or the other to make both match. Then you must stain first before any oil treatment (and I prefer alcohol based leather stain over water based 'wood' stains).

[AtlLaw]

There is so much to do on this project I thought I'd occasionally update this thread with general stuff.  Then I can detail the work with pictures in other threads, one for each part of the rifle.  i.e. barrel work, forend work, stock work, etc.

I realised that, while getting ready to get ready, I had never shot the rifle with the action I now have the barrel paired with!     I'm kinda like Pete when it comes to having an odd action or two laying around.     But all my barrels are now mated up perfectly with an action, so I have a lot of test firing to do!   

Anyway, when I tried to pick an area of the rifle to start working on before the test firing and metal work was done, I found myself saying to myself, self, you have to have this done before you can do that!  It was a good reminder how interrelated all the dimensions, angles, parts of a firearm are.  Especially when it comes to stock work.

So the metal work has to come first; once the rifle is test fired on this action that is!  The plan is to have my 'smith cut and crown the barrel to 28" and mount front and rear sights.  That should be all the subcontracting I need to do.

Once the barrel work is done and everything is ready to be fitted together, with file in hand I can concentrate on the furniture!   Oh, I've already got a steel spacer and I've picked out an old English style cast steel trigger guard from Track of the Wolf.  But I've yet to order the forend or grip cap material.  I want horn but it looks like I may have to settle for Ebony... 

My time is limited nowadays but maybe if I can get Kathie out for a ride one day she won't mind if I stop by the range for a bit!   

More soon... I hope!

[gcrank1]

Good to hear you are getting some 'gun time', Richard !
When I built bikes I liked to get them up & running before I went to chrome & paint.
Hope it shoots as good as my SS 'new model' is with its stubby 24"  .
IIRC, Jeff's Outfitters had some Asian Buff Horn buttplates, 6 x 1 7/8"; ask him about grip caps too, even though theyre not in the catalog.

[AtlLaw]

Thanks for the tip!   

[cwlongshot]

Good to "see" you here Richard!!

Gun looks good too...

CW

[rdlange]

Re reading your posts... You mentioned earlier having a old English style cast trigger guard from Track of the Wolf.  Do you know which model it was?  Their latest site info shows several including the 'English fowler" one I like for a straight wrist stock as "very long wait". 

Just wondering, because I don't know which is the right size and I can't really tell from the pictures which one would work.  Only the French fowler guard with the long tang seems available in steel and looks like it would work if the tang is bent down to follow the curve of the pistol grip.

Thanks...

[AtlLaw]

You mentioned earlier having a old English style cast trigger guard from Track of the Wolf.  Do you know which model it was?  Their latest site info shows several including the 'English fowler" one I like for a straight wrist stock as "very long wait"

The trigger guard I picked is "TG-ENG-3-I Triggerguard English Style, wax cast steel . . . $21.99"  It has the look I decided on after looking at pictures of every classic double and single rifle I could find.     It should be fairly easy to modify to fit the H&R receiver and I can even fit the strap to the curve of the grip if I want to.  I don't know about the depth of the bow but I should also be able to adjust that if necessary.

[mechanic]

Richard,

Are you just going to cut the exhisting guard flush, then install this?  Been thinking of something like this myself for my BC.

Ben

[AtlLaw]

That certainly is one option Ben.  When I get to that stage of the build I'll probably sit in the man cave with the parts in front of me and stare at them until the proper method of mating them comes to mind!     I just hope that method doesn't involve a block of steel, drills and files!     'course this may be the perfect oportunity to try my hand at sand casting... 

[PHATINJUN]

Richard you may not need the #'s in your stock. I got a set of those GSI's on my 25/06 and it weighs a ton...but then a 25/06 is not a 450SE Kurt