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Author Topic: First time for me....ever happen to you?  (Read 932 times)

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Offline Silvertp

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First time for me....ever happen to you?
« on: April 04, 2011, 12:42:32 PM »

I had loaded 40 .280 cases for fire-forming to .280 AI.  Apparently I seated the bullets a little deep and noticed after firing the primers were above flush and the new shoulder angle didn't look fully developed. 

I grabbed my RCBS kinetic bullet puller and proceeded to pull the bullets so I could set them out to the lands and hopefully improve my case forming.

Well, while whacking the puller on a 2 x 6 I had a primer detonate.  Scared the rods out of me.  Not sure why the  H4350 did not ignite, evidently not enough pressure. 

Saying that I am leary of pulling bullets with the "kinetic" approach is an understatement ! 

Anyone had a similar experience???

Silvertp
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Offline mechanic

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 12:57:26 PM »
I did years ago as a boy.  I was pulling bullets for my Dad, (25-06) if I remember right, and not only did the primer detonate, but the round went off.  It blew the cap off the puller up to the cement ceiling of the shop, split the side, and left the bullet in the bottom.  I don't like to use them to this day.  I bought a press puller, and if it doesn't work, I just wrench it out with pliers and throw it in the melt pile.

I cannot explain how this happened, and thus it worries me more. :'(

Ben
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 01:03:39 PM »
WOW!! 

NO, I have NOT had the "pleasure"....  :-\ :-\ :-\

VERY GLAD NEITHER of you was hurt!!!


Just last week I pulled about fifty 500 S&W loads.... SCARY. I don't use it allot, I have a couple collet style pullers but no collets for the 50 cal..  I'm now thinking I ain't gonna use it at all anymore!


CW
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 02:01:12 PM »
Somebody's gonna have to explain to me how this could happen if the puller is being used as prescribed.   ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Offline mechanic

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 03:02:34 PM »
Quote from: Old Syko on April 04, 2011, 02:01:12 PM
Somebody's gonna have to explain to me how this could happen if the puller is being used as prescribed.   ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

I'd like someone to explain it to me.......I still just don't know... :-X
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Offline .22-5-40

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 03:30:31 PM »
Hello, mechanic.  Glad your not hurt!  I have heard that these things can happen..powder and primers can and do explode when subjected to sharp jolts.  Few years ago, at a well known bench-rest match, fellow had new rifle with old handloads, managed to get ctg. stuck in chamber.  Removed bolt & tried to push it out with cleaning rod from muzzle.  Wouldn't budge..so he wacked it with palm..still stuck..whacked it hard..& ctg. fired.  Now the tradgedy was, his wife was standing behind line watching when case hit her in stomach, despite getting her to hospital in record time, she died on operating table.  Case was recovered...& primer didn't  show any signs of impact.   Husband said blow from bullet almost knocked him off his feet, but he held on to rod.  Could the sudden pressure from the rod jamming the bullet down into case, compressing powder set it off?  This stuff needs more testing.
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Offline Bullseye

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 03:46:19 PM »
Where I work we demil military rounds like, mortars, howitzers and other big stuff.  Even though it is bigger it all works on the same principle as our small arms in our homes.  I can guarantee you that primers and powders can go off without a direct hit to the primer by a sharp object.  I have seen it and I believe, sometimes there is no explanation like the time an ignition cartridge went off on a conveyor with no sharp object of nothing else near the round.  Static electricity, vibration, extra sensitive primer for some reason or who knows what else, it can happen.

I have a kinetic puller that I never felt comfortable using unless I had to and since I started this job I feel even more uneasy even though they are used daily by a lot of people.  One golden rule we have at work is not to bang drop or beat on the ammo.
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Offline Silvertp

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 05:15:53 PM »
Mechanic, glad to hear you weren't hurt however it helps substantiate that there must be some mechanism  that allows the primer to ignite while using this tool.  I still can't figure out why.  Maybe the anvil in the primer moved deeper or compressed on itself from the sudden forceful stop, causing detonation. 

No way to investigate further as the primer is no longer in the primer pocket.  Bullet and powder still in the case.

Ive pulled 100's of bullets with it  but today was my last. Im gonna hang up the kinetic  puller and dig out my press operated puller.  Just not worth the risk.

Silvertp



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Offline mechanic

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 05:43:15 PM »
Yep, same Silver, I'm glad you were not injured.  It's been almost 50 years for me but I still remember it like yesterday......... :)
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2011, 02:47:15 AM »
ive pulled many thousands of rounds with kninetic pullers through the years and many of the were very stubborn pulls and never had one go off.
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Offline Silvertp

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2011, 10:30:54 AM »
LLoyd....

Ive been talking to a lot of my reloading bud's in addition to the feedback here and most have pulled 1000's of bullets as you have.  None of them have ever experienced an incident, so sounds like detonation problems are very uncommon.   Even so I have decided to quit using the kinetic puller. 

Kinda like seeing a bigfoot.  Once you have experienced it you know it exists, doesn't really matter that none of your friends have seen it. 

Be Safe
Silvertp

 
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 10:11:46 PM »
I personally never liked the idea of "whacking" loaded ammo. The few I pulled early in my career was with pliers and a press. Now I use a collet type puller. Once I have it set up, it is fast, maybe faster than a kinetic puller. One hand on the press handle and one on the collet screw. 1/4 turn and the collet is tight, down with the handle and voila bullet is out. Press hand removes the cartridge and the other hand 1/4 turn back and the bullet drops out. Place new case into press. Repeat as needed.  I use it for jacketed bullets only. I keep the pulled bullets separate from my "virgin" bullets to use in case forming. I consider the first firing of a case fire forming as I do not full length size, unless I have to. For pistol bullets, I load them on the light side and if I do not like the load, I just shoot them up - no pulls.

Good Luck and Good Shooting
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Offline huntducks

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2011, 07:00:55 AM »
Glad you only had to change your undees ;D

I'm with several others here I have never had a primer go off (knock on wood) and none of my friends have, I know guys that post this are not BS and I like many others have no answer to why I do know that making primers are the most hazardous job at a ammo plant.

I gave up the beater puller years ago it's either a RCBS collet, vice grips or I use a small thumb tubing cutter by Ridged.
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Offline Spanky

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2011, 10:51:48 AM »
The why's and how's aren't important.
The fact that nobody got hurt is the important thing. ;)



Spanky
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Offline wild willy

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2011, 12:00:34 PM »
Did you use the three piece holder that came with the puller or did you use a regular shellhoder? I have heard of primers going off when using a regular shellholder.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2011, 04:39:09 AM »
Can't say I've puled thousands of bullets, but it's in the hundreds. Never had a round go off. 'Course, I really don't whack it that hard, I usually tap many times, and on a piece of 4x4 under my chest freezer. Never on the concrete floor. As few of times I might have to, I'll keep using the kninetic puller, and hope for the best. gypsyman
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Offline huntswithdogs

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2011, 06:31:34 AM »
I've pulled a bunch over years like the others here, with no problems.  If it ever does, there's gonna be a mess for me to clean out of my britches!
Glad nobody got injured.

HWD 
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Offline Silvertp

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Re: First time for me....ever happen to you?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2011, 10:01:21 AM »
Wild Willie...

I used the 3-piece cartridge holder that came with the tool.  Its one size fits all due to a rubber ring that pulls it together. 

I was looking today and found a "primer-sized" hole in the ceiling directly above where I was working.  Apparently the primer exited with some authority and retained its shape.

For now Ive got the rest of the rounds pulled, reseated and fire-formed.  I've got 50 more to fire form then I'll start reloading to .280 AI specs.

Silvertp
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