Opinions of actions please

[us920669]

I have a hankerin' to build a 458 WinMag.  Got a semi-inlet stock with plenty of lumber, which is good 'cus I'm going to leave it pretty fat.  I've still got a lot of work ahead of me on that, but sooner or later it will be action time and I'm just considering my options.  I'd like to avoid anything from the First World War era and I'm not too keen on anything a Russian POW might have built, although I've never had a problem with any Mauser action.  I kind of like the post-war FNs and I've gotten great service from my early Mark X.  I know, they were made a little differently, but in the case of the Mark X, it's better steel.  I'm new to the forum, name's Doug, enjoy yakking about guns, reloading, hunting, etc.

[Bigeasy]

Hi Doug.  Welcome to the forum.

There is really nothing wrong with a good military Mauser action, but by the time you drill & tap, lower the bolt handle, change the safety, add a hinged floorplate, etc.. you might as well go commercial. 

I had a H&R Ultra in .270 that used the FN action, and it was well made.  Also have several Mauser based Interarms mark X / Mitchell  rifles (imported from what is now called Serbia) that are also very nice.  Either action would work well, and you can find good deals on the Mitchell rifles right now.  Another sleeper is some of the old JC Higgins rifles (Sears) that used the FN action.

Whatever action you end up using, I would instal two steel cross bolts in the stock.  My Interarms rifle in .375 H&H with an aftermarket wood stock cracked the stock behind the recoil lug and tang so badly I ended up replacing it with a fiberglass stock.

Larry

[parkergunshop]

Doug,

I have built .375 H&H and .458 Winchester Mags.

One .375 was built using a new Mark X barrelled action which I installed in a glass bedded wood stock.    Another was built using a 1917  Enfield Action with a Shaw barrel, also in a glass bedded wood stock with a cross bolt behind the recoil lug.

I also put together a .458 Winchester Mag using a P14 Remington Enfield Action into an English Walnut Stock, this one has two cross bolts, one behind the recoil lug, another one behind the magazine and in front of the trigger and it has a 3/8 threaded steel rod installed and glassed in place into the pistol grip area of the stock.

The 3/8 inch threaded steel rod was installed after a small crack appeared behind the rear tang when test firing the .458 after glass bedding the entire action and the first two inches of the barrel with the two cross bolts installed.   Recoil is brutal in particular with the full power factory loads.  I may have gotten a weak piece of English Walnut also.

I had no issues with either of the .375 H&H's with or without the cross bolt in place, good wood and a good glass bedding job seems to be sufficient here, but not with the .458.

Best Military Mauser Actions for your purpose.

Oberndorf's with code S42 made before 1944 or Obernforf's with code BYF made in the 1930's to 1941,  Czech VZ24 Action from any year,  the Polish Radom 98 Actions are good also on a par with the VZ24's.   The Iranian 98's made on Czech equipment  in Iran under Czech supervision are good also from both a tolerance and heat treatment standpoint.

Unless you do the bolt alterations and drilling and tapping and trigger and safety work yourself, you will spend more on the military action route than in getting a Mark X or Santa Barbara 98 commercial action,  The Parker-Hale rifles were built on Santa Barbara Actions.

I rockwell tested a Sanata Barbara Action it tested out at a Rockwell 43 and it is made of a modern alloy steel like the Mark X and not just case hardened 1035 -1045  carbon steel like the various 98 military actions.

My .458 Winchester groups under 3/4 inch for 3 shots at 100 yards and shots cast bullets under 1 inch at the same range.

[mauser98us]

Also any action made by FN for the Gov'ts of South America are good candidates.

[parkergunshop]

The FN's are precisely made and are good actions, however their heat treatment is not as good as the Oberendorf's or the VZ24's from my experience, the outter hardness case is not as thick .   I would not hesitate to use the FN's for standard calibers, but like the Oberendorf's and VZ24's for the magnum cases where the back thrust is quite a bit greater on the bolt and receiver bearing surfaces.

Reference Jery Kuhnhausen Mauser Bolt Actions page 71 for example.  Case hardness .002 to .005 thousanths which can easily be removed  or dammaged by lapping in the bolt or by excessive loading by magnum calibers.

[mauser98us]

I'll defer to your  experience as a rifle builder. I withdraw the comment. Good call.

[parkergunshop]

Mauser98us,

I followed P. O. Ackley's advise and only used the P14 and 1917 Enfields in building my H&H Magnums, 338 Winchester Mag,  375 H&H Mag, 458 Winchester Mag.  After testing the various military actions he recommended the Springfield and Mauser Military Actions for the non Magnum cases.  Though I think that the Orbendorfs after 1934 and VZ24s in particular are ok for Magnum calibers.

The last Mauser Actions I sold and worked with are as follows:

ZV24 into a 338/06.
Orbendorf 1939 into a .308 Winchester
Sold a Orberndorf 1943 for turning into a .22.250 using a kreiger barrel by another custom gunsmith
Sold a 1908 DWM for turning into a custom 7X57 at a later date by another gunsmith.
Have two FN Military Mausers drilled and tapped  with Redfield or Leupold bases with low scope safetys left in inventory

My personal 98 based mausers.

A 1908 DWM Mauser with a Douglas Barrel in 7x57.
A Iranian ZV24 type Mauser with the original 8x57 barrel  in a mannlicher stock with the barrel shortened to 18 inches.
A Santa Barbara 98 type action in .257 Roberts Ackley Improved with a Shaw Barrel.
A Mark X solid bottom single shot Action in 6 MM Remington. with a Hart Barrel.
The last two are absolutely ok for the magnums as they are alloy steel and were used for Magnums as factory rifles,  My Santa Barbara rockwell tested at a Rockwell 43, which was the same Rockwell number as My Remington 1914 (P14) Enfield used for a .458 Winchester Mag.   The Enfields are also an alloy Nickel Steel a better material than that used in the Military Mausers and the early Springfields.

If you want close to Magnum performance on a 98 Mauser Action, the .35 Whelen will come close and not stress the action as much.

If I remember correctly the back thrust on the bolt and receiver lug bearing surfaces for a H&H case head size averages about 20-30 percent more than for a 30-06 case head size.

[mauser98us]

I the enfields are better choices for the mags by the simple fact that on the mausers too much material has too be removed to cycle the longer rounds. Even the great gun buliders of the time opened up standard mausers for the long mags, it simply doesn't have to be done anymore,as other stuff is availible. I have a Mark Ten in 375. No problem here , but  like you said much more modern steels and heat treating.

[parkergunshop]

Mauser98us,

I agree with your logic.

In looking at the lugs, the bottom lug on the P14/1917 Enfield bolt is a good 15 percent thicker than on a 98 Mauser, the top lug is close to double the thickness of the 98 Mauser.    The amount of metal at the feed ramp on the Enfield behind the bottom lug has at least 50 percent more metal to support the bottom lug bolt thrust.  Much more strength than on a Mauser in these areas.

As you said the Enfield needs little if any modification for feeding for the .375 H&H round, only a lengthened magazine box in the case of my 1917 since I used a P14 bolt that needed no modification for the larger case head.  It is  a lot of work removing the ears on the rear receiver bridge on an Enfield and you need to shorten the bolt stop perch.  I did not bother to straighten the trigger guards on mine, took advantage of an extra round in the magazine.

The 98 is a close as you can get to a sporter rife action without having to modify it a great deal and you wind up with a much lighter rifle.

I only own one modern action a Savage 110 in 308 Norma Mag, love my Mausers, Springfield and Enfields they have stood the test of time.

[us920669]

Thanks a lot you guys, this is all good info.  I've got Kuhnhausen's shop manual, and I've owned more Mausers that I can remember.  I just got a deal on a 25-06, old FN with the military cuts.  I got a deal because it's had the snot shot out of it - on its second barrel - bolt seems OK except the pin hole might have opened up a bit.  Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.  I think what it is, I had a sweet M70 in 458 but I let it get away and I want it back.  Maybe I should just buy one and make my next Mauser a 338, another cartridge I den't have right now.  I wonder if 375 or 416 Ruger would work in a Mauser.  I guess 30-06 opened up to 375 would be too much metal and not enough fuel.  I love 35 Whelan.

[mauser98us]

As much as I am a Mauser freak, I do really like the Savage action. The new models are  finished really nice.