Model 700 with cheap scope versus????

[Titan_Bow]

Howdy, I'm fairly new here, been lurking over on the Handi rifle section mainly.  I am a long time bowhunter, and I am taking the plunge this year and buying a rifle to leverage some late season meat hunts.  Other than the M-16 I was issued in the Army,  I haven't owned a firearm. I seem to spend all my money and time on archery related things.   
  I thought I was all set on an H&R Survivor in .308. I was planning on putting a decent ($200 range) scope in it.   All in all, it would be close to $500 dollars.  However, I was in Dicks Sporting Goods tonight, buying my son some stuff for soccer. We walked by the gun counter, and I noticed they had a Remington 700 ADL .308 with camo synthetic stock and what looked like a no-name scope, for $549. 
  My question is, for a $500 budget, what gun would you choose?  This will be mainly used for hunting cow elk, antelope does, etc.  Just a meat getter really, but I want it in .308 and I want something that has good accuracy out at 200-300 yds.    Is the Remington with a cheap scope a better bet than a cheaper rifle with a much better scope?

[Graybeard]

If you ask the NEF/H&R guys I'm sure they'd say go with the handi rifle. I won't. I'd go with the Remington M700 and upgrade the scope when you can. You can often find used Leupold scopes which have the same warranty as a new one here on the Optics Classifieds for $150-175. Bushnell Elite 3200 or 4200 scopes as well as Nikons are sold used on here as well all the time and all should do well for your purposes.

I'm not sure what the scope that comes on the rifle might be so can't say how good it might be but prolly will get you thru one season anyway. I would upgrade the scope later tho. You also might look on the used gun rack and find a nice used bolt gun with a quality scope in the same price range.

[Lloyd Smale]

check around. The local walmart has the same 700s on sale for 450 right now.

[stubshaft]

FWIW - I would go with the 700 and like LLoyd said upgrade the scope later.  Heck, irons can get you into the vitals of an elk at 200+.

[Swampman]

I'd go with the Model 700 for sure.  The package deal scopes work fine and you can always upgrade.  You should be able to find one for a lot less.

[deerandduck]

For what its worth, a buddy has gotten several of Dick's 700 specials and had good luck with those cheap scopes.  Sure they are not the best optics, but they seem to holding and shooting small groups for him.  Like others have said, you can always upgrade the scope later when more funds are available.
Go for the combo,
Deerandduck

[Bigeasy]

Another vote for the #700.  The .308 is not a heavy recoiling round, and most scopes hold up to it pretty well.  The Redfield 2x7's carry a lifetime warranty thru Leupold, and are available new for around $140.00.  Like was said, I would check Walmart and see what they have available w/o a scope, and maybe check the used rack at a couple gun shops.

Larry

[Titan_Bow]

Thanks for the replies guys. Although I really like the look and feel of that Survivor .308,  I think I am leaning towards a bolt action instead.  Doing some research online last night,   two new candidates come up:   Savage and Howa.

So the list is now :  Remington 700 ADL scope combo  $549
                               Howa 1500 compact 7mm 08 w/ rings    $399  ($199 scope)  $600
                               Savage Stevens 200 .308  $299  ($199 scope)  $500
                               Savage model 16 stainless w/tasco mildot .270 wsm  (used)  $525
                               Savage 11F  7mm 08  no scope or rings     $387.00   ($199 scope)  $587

 All these are prices I got from online gun dealers,  but the prices reflect that these are all in my "budget".   Any advise on these?

[eye shot]

I would stick with the 700 and if not look at the Marlin. I have a Savage in .308 and can't hit the broad side of a barn with it.

[Swampman]

I would avoid anything made by Savage and esp. Howa.

[gunnut69]

Wow guys.. I'm surprised by the respose concerning the Howa and Savage.. I've awfully few complaints about the Savage's accuracy and the Marlin is escentually a Savage with some design upgrades.. I particularly like the looks of the new XR7(??) and it uses the  AccuTriggerm very very worthwhile devise.. I've worked with several Howas including several Howa rifles built for Weatherby and while they're not a Mark V they were all accurate and functionally just fine.. The older Savage rifles lacked some finesse but were all good shooters.. some haw even said the Savage rifles are aurguably the most accurate out of the box rifles (average) available.. I do agree with the prior poster though who suggested a good used rifle.. I bought a used M70 push feed in 30-06 with a wood stock for less than 350.  I would argue against poor scopes. They acn ruin a hunt with little are no warning. I've seen all fail except Zeius(sp.) and leupold and I've seen some Leupolds that should have failed.. The local BassPro had the Rifleman series in 3x9 for under $200. I bought several.. The last scope I saw fail was a Burris. On a rifle I had built (savage rebarrel) it shot sub 1/2 inch 3 shot groups before the Colorado elk season. It was used to VERY good effect there. On checking the rig before out opener (whitetail) here in Missouri the scope was found to have gone south. Reticle moved all over the place, enough to change bullet impact feet at 100 yards.. That would have been a miss..

[nasem]

I am not much of a hunter, but my brother is, he always recommends newbies to buy the cheapest rifle they can afford but put a quality scope on it.... $200-300 rifle + $250-350 scope is better than a $500 rifle + $100 scope

I have had very good experiences with the stevens 200 (in .223), pretty much any ammo you feed it, will you 1" groups (if not tighter), even that wolf steel-cased garbage..... Now the stevens in .308, I'd have no idea....

As far as rifle goes, I think you should spend the next 1-2 months searching around for a good used bolt gun, anything in .270 and up will be good (.270, .280, 308, 30-06, 7mm mag).... try your best to buy a rifle without a scope for $250-350. If you look around gunbroker and gunsamerica long enough, you will find a great deal, you just have to search around, contact sellers and see how negotiable they are.

Heres an example of a "decent" buy from gunbroker, that vari-x II is a great scope and carries a lifetime warranty irrespective of when the scope was made or if owner is not original:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=219660499

Im sure if you look around long enough, you'll land upon a better deal

[351 power]

have 2 stevens and one rem 700. happy with all of them. try them out and get the one that fits you best. have had good luck with bushnell scopes. just got a new weaver and it looks like a good scope too. enjoy them

[nasem]

Heres an interesting Howa package....
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=219704196

Im not too impressed with the scope, but its value brand new is about $150, maybe you can keep it new and sell it off for a discount ($100) and get a better quality scope.

[hillbill]

yu will have less probs with the 700. and ive seen cheap scopes last for years. or maybe 2 boxes of shells.2 of the cheapest scopes i have are on two of my fav rifles and have been for years.but i have grown to appreciate the better glass.

[helotaxi]

FWIW, I took the barrel off one of the Savage .308 package rifles from Wal-mart ($397 for rifle and scope in .30-06, .270, .308 or .243) and put it on a left hand action that I had.  Rounds 11-20 out of the barrel grouped inside 1" at 100yds.  That was with cheap Federal soft points and I only expect it to get better.  The action was mated with a $139 A&B barrel from Midway and it shoots even better.

[Swampman]

If you can't afford a Remington the Marlin might be ok.  Jap made guns may be hard to find parts for.

[Lloyd Smale]

I recomended a remington because they are my favorite bolt action rifle. that been said ive got winchesters, rugers, savage, weatherby vanguards, howas, and even mosbergs bolt guns and heres what ill say. If a gun doesnt shoot well or i dont consider it reliable it goes down the road. Ive sent guns down the road from each and every one of these manufactures and have ones that found a place in the safe. I hear alot about what gun someone should buy if they want guranteed accuracy and ive probably posted myself on the matter before. But toss mossberg and ruger out of that lineup as ive struggled more with them then the others and any of the others will about guarantee you a very accurate rifle right out of the box and if its borderline a little work with a rasp and some bedding compound will usually get you there.

[captdp]

A newbe friend bought one in October from Cabelas with a Cabelas scope for $600 out the door. It's a 308. He shoots it around 10-20 times two or three times a month. It shoots sub inch groups with the ammo it likes. The scope seems to hold up so far. He killed his 1st deer with it. I'd go that way! capt david

[Titan_Bow]

 Hi guys, thanks for all the feedback on this.  I actually won an auction on gunbroker.com  for a like-new LH Savage Model 16 SS chambered in .270WSM  with a Tasco tactical scope for $430.   I was really surprised no one else bid on it, given that a new Savage 16 MSRPs for over $800.     I've seen the ammo prices for .270 WSM, so I am a little mad at myself for not holding out for a good deal on a 308, but I figured if I didn't do it now, I probably wouldn't do it.   

[parkergunshop]

Ok,

As long as you plan to handload your ammo, the WSM 270 is ok, but the price for the factory loads is another story.  If you buy 60 rounds of brass, you can probably wear the barrel out, a good handloader can easily load brass ten times or more just don't push the shoulder back neck size only.

My Savage 110 in 308 Norma Mag is very easy on brass and I neck size only.  You can get by with neck sizing for bolt actions, other action types don't do so well and some autos require small base sizers.

[Swampman]

I was really surprised no one else bid on it,

I'm not...........

[nasem]

Hi guys, thanks for all the feedback on this.  I actually won an auction on gunbroker.com  for a like-new LH Savage Model 16 SS chambered in .270WSM  with a Tasco tactical scope for $430.   I was really surprised no one else bid on it, given that a new Savage 16 MSRPs for over $800.     I've seen the ammo prices for .270 WSM, so I am a little mad at myself for not holding out for a good deal on a 308, but I figured if I didn't do it now, I probably wouldn't do it.   

don't feel bad about your buy.... be happy, you got your first deer hunter
It'll probably cost you another $30 for FFL transfer fees (heck around here, our FFLs charge $40).

You should consider reloading if your going to shoot ALOT.... other wise, the price you pay for reloading equipment will never get paid off.... IMO, if your only going to shoot 1 box a month (approx $30 per box), then reloading isn't worth it

[Empty Quiver]

Once you get it sighted in your ammo usage will go down substantially. The newness will wear off, your trust will build, and it'll take about three years to go through a box of ammo... or it'll break you if you like it!

[2ndtimer]

Ok,

As long as you plan to handload your ammo, the WSM 270 is ok, but the price for the factory loads is another story.  If you buy 60 rounds of brass, you can probably wear the barrel out, a good handloader can easily load brass ten times or more just don't push the shoulder back neck size only.

My Savage 110 in 308 Norma Mag is very easy on brass and I neck size only.  You can get by with neck sizing for bolt actions, other action types don't do so well and some autos require small base sizers.

Actually, the .270WSM does not take well to necksizing the brass.  Its steep shoulder angle almost requires the shoulder to be pushed back slightly in order to be able to chamber reloaded rounds.  It usually requires the brass to be "very" full length sized in order to chamber easily.  (something important in a hunting rifle).  If you look around on other boards you will find numerous posts dealing with the need for full length sizing on the WSM cartridges.   I still really like my .270WSM, and even ful length sized, you should be able to get 6 to 8 loadings if you load to reasonable pressure levels.  Mine was very accurate when new and is still decently accurate now after a lot of rounds down the tube.

[MGMorden]

Savage makes good guns.  As a matter of fact, almost all the mass market guns these days are plenty serviceable.  As said finding factory ammo for the WSM might be a bit tricky, but I'm sure the rifle will serve you well.

[OldSchoolRanger]

You should have taken the 700 in .308, but that said, Savage makes a decent rifle.  I have a Savage 110c in .308, but it doesn't see much use these days.   I also have a couple of Handi's, which are fun to shoot, but ever since I bought my Remington 700 (Mtn) in 7mm Mauser, I hardly ever use any other rifle for hunting except during muzzle loading season. 
Not that the .270WSM is a bad caliber, it can just get to be a really expensive caliber to shoot. Unless like parkergunshop, & nasem said, you decide to take up hand loading.  Then there's the problem with availability, some stores just don't carry ammo in that caliber.   Other than that it's just a personal preference.
Good luck with your new rifle.

[Casull]

Anyone that tells you to stay away from a Savage or a Howa just plain doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Swampman]

Or they're just trying to get you to make a wise investment.

[Casull]