Author Topic: Flintlock deer season (Read 1233 times)

pa ridge-runner · « **on:** December 17, 2003, 01:16:32 AM »

Was wondering how many other states besides Pa offer a traditional deer season.We have for years had our own deer season which starts the day after christmas.We can only use a firearm that is a flintlock.I personally use a petersoli(italian)50 cal w/roundball.We can use maxi-ball or sabot but I have heard that the most accurate is a roundball.Of course this season is alot tougher than the other ones because of (usually) poor weather patterns that time of year.But thats the challenge

.Whats happening in YOUR state?

rollingb · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2003, 05:53:54 AM »

PA ridge-runner,.... Idaho also has a "traditional muzzleloader" season, however I've heard thet some folks are lobby'n to include "musket caps and 209 primers" claim'n thet they will aid in better ignition for "larger powder-charges"! :noway:

Some people NEVER fail to amaze me, 'cause Idaho "ALREADY" has a muzzleloader season for inlines, NOW it seems those same folks want to change the "regs" to include more "junk" dur'n the "traditional season". :-D :-D

If it cain't be "kilt" with a traditional riflegun use'n a proper charge of blackpowder,.... they better stay with ther "long-range modern modified-centerfires", or learn how to "hunt close" (hey!!.. now ther's a thot :idea2: )!!

Best regards!!
rollingb

Myk · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2003, 06:04:09 AM »

I didn't know they allowed PA to use anything but patch and ball.

IL puts the first weekend of muzzleloader during the last weekend of firearms. Anything goes with ours. Except the muzzleloading smokeless powder rifles.
Thankfully we can use scopes, I can't shoot without a scope because of my glasses. I'll take my long brass tube scope which is the same era as my Hawkins to congress if they ever try to stop me using a scope.

The season being too close to my CHRISTmas rush generally keeps me from hunting in the ML only season.

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2003, 10:58:50 AM »

Bama finally actually had a "real" muzzle loader season this year for the first time ever. Three days before gun season opened. The only thing traditional about it tho was no scopes, iron sights only. However as I understand the rules fiber optic sights count as irons.

For the past few years Bama has designated the last couple weeks of gun season or even more recently a couple weeks in early January as muzzle loader season. But the only incentive offered since gun season is open is you can shoot two does or a buck and a doe per day. Whoop di do. In 2/3 of the state folks are doing that with modern centerfire rifles at the same time.

I did go one of those three days this year. First time I've had the muzzle loader out of the cabinet in 5-6 years. Iffen I'd have gotten in the stand a few minutes earlier I'd have gotten one. Spooked one that walked up on me as I was getting on the warm clothes I carried in to stand. Oh well.

GB

pa ridge-runner · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2003, 01:37:58 AM »

MYK,
For a long time Pa hunters could only use patch n ball,but now that the game comm. has declared total war on does they started a season where anything goes with a muzzleloader.The anything goes season is held in mid october.A hunter can use any type of muzzy,scoped or not.The traditional season is always the day after CHRISTmas and runs for about 3 weeks.
The largest black powder dealer in eastern pa WILL NOT sell inlines or really anything modern.He refuses to sell anything but traditional.He loses alot of money but doesnt care,now thats hard core :eek: Thanks PaR-R :grin:

rollingb · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2003, 03:52:08 AM »

PA ridge-runner,.... I believe thet blackpowder dealer in eastern PA, and I,.... would "git along" jest fine!! :agree:

Some things in this world, are much more important then "money"!!

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2003, 05:48:48 AM »

Wisconsin's tolken muzzle loader season is lousy. I generally just use my muzzle loader during the regular gun season.

The ML season here is the 7 days immediately following the rifle season. The total population is thinned out by about 1/3. The remaining deer are extremely wary.

Instead of there being any kind of "advantage" to offset the technology handicap, the season is actually the most difficult of all.

Thankfully, many of Wisconsin's state parks are so overrun with deer that they offer a lottery-style drawing for park access and most are muzzle loader only. What's more, is there is a reason these locations are set aside as state parks. They're beautiful! So you get to hunt some of the most beautiful spots in the state, and the number of other hunters is limited by lottery.

Of course, if there's any other hunters from Wisconsin reading this post - the state park hunts STINK! Don't even waste your time applying for an access permit. :grin:

But, it's not really a traditional season. Wisconsin allows in-lines in the parks or anywhere else. That doesn't bother me. To me the ONLY purpose for restricting a season to traditional-only would be a way of limiting the number of hunters.

Well, as I said, the actual ML season in Wisconsin is so lousy, almost nobody participates in it. If I run into another hunter, I don't give a rip what kind of gun he's got. But what matters more is how many other hunters I run into. That can be accomplished by lottery or by technology restrictions (or by offering a real sucky season)

Ramrod · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2003, 03:59:33 PM »

Quote from: pa ridge-runner

MYK,
The largest black powder dealer in eastern pa WILL NOT sell inlines or really anything modern.He refuses to sell anything but traditional.He loses alot of money but doesnt care,now thats hard core :eek: Thanks PaR-R :grin:

Are you talking about Dixon's? I hate to tell ya, but the NEW largest dealer in eastern PA is Cabela's!Guess what they sell most! Ack!!!

Super Rat · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2003, 04:27:32 PM »

Washington State ML seasons start before the modern rifle seasons, which is how it should be. Then there is also a late season(s) after modern rifle. They are actually quite generous.

There is no traditional season, just ML. But no jacketed slugs or glass sights. Saboted lead slugs are allowed. I think shotgun primer ignition is allowed, but I'm not positive.

I'd like to see them divide the ML season into traditional/ML, first half of season traditional and second half any ML. IMHO, I think most inlines are just used as a way to take advantage of the ML seasons, and not for the love of muzzle loading.

One good thing here is that you can only buy your tag, be it deer or elk, as a ML tag or modern firearm tag. In other words, if you choose a ML deer tag, you'll only be hunting deer during the ML seasons, and with a ML. I usually get a modern firearm deer tag, and a ML elk tag. This year I didn't hunt deer, and next year if I do I'll probably go ML.

Still, ML season being first, that still attracts or encourages people to get the most whizz-bang, modern high tech inline they can so they can get out before the modern firearm hunters, but still have every advantage (as they percieve it) they can get.

Season before last, every last-man hunter I came across (about seven) during season had inlines, including the guy I hunt with. This last season, I saw three inlines, (not including my partner) and three Hawken type side hammer/percussion rifles. Me, myself and I are still the only flintlock shooters I've ever seen in the woods so far.

pa ridge-runner · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2003, 01:30:09 AM »

:-D Ramrod,
I am totally aware of Cabela's new store which just opened in september.It's a super store,has everything an outdoors person would want.I'm sure Dixon is losing money...but he has Ideals that mean more than money.He has been around so long that money is not an issue with him.I'm sure no-one that works for Cabela's can even come close to having the knowledge that Chuck Dixon has.He is a walking encyclopedia of traditional bp firearms and methods etc.Have you ever gone to the "gun makers fair" in July?People come from all over the country to camp out at his farm.When it comes to traditional firearms this guy IS numero uno around here.I'm not saying I agree with him,but he does have my respect.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2003, 04:35:17 AM »

Super Rat,

Just curious.

When you bump into people while you're hunting the ML season, does it bother you what kind of gun they are carrying? Or does it bother you that you're bumping into them?

Personally, I'd rather bump into 1 stranger with an in-line than bump into 20 stranger with flintlocks.

However, that being said, every time I bump into someone with an in-line, I wonder to myself, "would that guy have stayed home if he had to use a traditional weapon?"

Not that I mind meeting people in the woods. Interestingly, those "lottery only" state parks really change the dynamic of the hunting. Since nobody organizes huge drives, the occasional still hunter bumping into another stillhunter or stand hunter causes absolutely no irritation. At least not from what I notice.

I'm carrying a looong flintlock which catches peoples attention and usually sparks a few questions. I am usually curious about how their day is going. Very friendly, these encounters. Mainly because if you walk around you can expect perhaps only one or two all day.

The limited range and firepower of a muzzle loader helps make the woods seem "bigger" too. If you're standing a few hundred yards from another blaze orange dot, you just don't get the sensation that they are horning in.

Naphtali · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2003, 04:29:16 AM »

As of 1999, the last year I maintained a 50-state record, Pensylvania's muzzleloading deer season was unique: RB only; flintlock only; non-apterure, non-adjustable open sights only.

The only problem I have with this arrangement for all ML hunting seasons is the non-aperture sight restriction because of my advance age. I cannot see well enough to use open sights effectively. Non-adjustable aperture sights would do no harm in Pennsyvania; they would probably reduce cripple losses by oldsters.

Because of lobbying of bell & whistle makers, because of the rule beaters -- that is, people who have scant interest in sport hunting, but want an edge over their quarry that is anathema to sport hunting -- these "people," solely for the purpose of killing something, demand their Buck Roger personal model cr** be included as equivalent to traditional muzzleloading equipment.

I wrote a set of model traditional big game hunting rules for book several years ago. The set died before it lived, never made it past the last draft.

And our representatives, like the pond scum they are, cave to these demands because their dollars are more than our dollars. Their involvement in political campaigns is more than our involvement.

So, as usual, we get exactly what we deserve. . . .

Gee, I wonder how this guy really feels about the subject?

papellet · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2003, 12:19:26 PM »

PA regulations now states "Flintlock ignition, single-barrel long guns manufactured prior to 1800, or a similar reproduction of an original muzzleloading single barrel long gun, 44 caliber or larger, using a single projectile. Iron open "V" or notch sights only. Fiber optic inserts permitted."

So now you can use roundball and most anything else.

Dutch/AL · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2003, 12:41:34 PM »

Here's a link where you can read about flintlock hunting on Wheeler Wildlife Refuge in North Alabama. I'm not sure exactly what year flintlocks were first allowed on Wheeler, but I have been hunting with one there the last 2 weeks of January for the last 13 years. Except for the end of January flintlock hunts, Wheeler is bowhunting only for deer.

http://www.alabamagameandfish.com/al_aa010103a/

Dutch/AL · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:04:40 PM »

Here's a link where you can read about flintlock hunting on Wheeler Wildlife Refuge in North Alabama. I'm not sure exactly what year flintlocks were first allowed on Wheeler, but I have been hunting with one there the last 2 weeks of January for the last 13 years. Except for the end of January flintlock hunts, Wheeler is bowhunting only for deer.

http://www.alabamagameandfish.com/al_aa010103a/

Super Rat · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2003, 06:26:12 AM »

Black Jaque,

No, it does not bother me at all what kind of rifle the other hunters are using, I just see some logic in dividing ML season into traditional/non-traditional. I would be "thrilled" to see another hunter with a flintlock though. (but not 20 of them!)

Here in Eastern Washington state the woods are not over crowded during ML, so seeing seven other hunters over the course of the whole season is not many people. That wasn't seven people in one day. So, no problem there either. Most of the other hunters I have seen passed by far enough away that they didn't see me, ("fast movers") but close enough that I could see what kind of guns they had. The ones I have talked to never mentioned my flinter, but they sure did keep looking at it. I do like to talk to other hunters, to find out which way they are going, and try to coordinate so that we might bounce something into each other.

I agree that the woods are bigger with muzzleloaders, and that's the problem I see with inlines becoming 200 yard rifles. (although there are few people that can shoot an open sighted rifle out to 200 yards well, at wild game, from field positions) Still, just taking 200 yard shots because the advertisement said you could, and missing "tends" to spook the game, chase it off, and make the woods smaller!!! :lol:

Ha ha no blaze orange dots around here...free to totally camo out and melt into the ground, trees, and bushes.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2003, 09:04:16 AM »

Super Rat,

Quote

IMHO, I think most inlines are just used as a way to take advantage of the ML seasons, and not for the love of muzzle loading.

This may indeed be perfectly true. The majority of deer hunters are just that, deer hunters. They don't give a rip what weapon they carry. They love deer hunting, weaponry is just a necessary tool. They will use whatever the law says they can use. To them the more hours in the woods the better.

I don't have a problem with that at all.

I don't want any law that says you have to "love muzzle loading" in order to hunt a particular season.

However, as you stated, there is a "logic in dividing ML season into traditional/non-traditional".

But in order to argue that effectively we would have to boil that "logic" down as far as we can.

What exactly is the benefit you wish to gain by dividing the two seasons?

It doesn't seem to be seeing fewer hunters.

It sounds like you would like the deer to be less "spooky". I agree, this is one of my big hang-ups with the WI ML season. It immediately follows the rifle season. The deer are spooky is an understatement.

I would like to see a primitive season that was early in Wisconsin. Early because it would offer great hunting opportunities. Primitive, because it would prevent excessive hunting pressure.

I just think that if you offered a 9 day season in mid October, you would have tons of hunters hitting the woods if it was wide open to in-lines, scopes, and sabots.

I think if you had the same season limited to flintlock only, you would have so few hunters that it wouldn't interfere with the regular rifle season to follow in November.

Super Rat · « **Reply #17 on:** December 29, 2003, 11:10:07 AM »

Right, I'm just thinking that with the increasing range of the inlines, it might be more "fair" to let the round ball shooters get out there first. It would not even have to be a half and half division thing, just give the people who are limiting their shots to 100 or less the first few days, maybe the first four days out of a ten day season for instance.

I do think that people using an inline, strictly as a "tool", are more likely to take wild shots, move through the woods fast, and generally spook the game more than the guy with a Brown Bess and a 85 yard self imposed range limit. I'm not saying that every person with an inline is like that.

In general, I would think that guys using flintlocks and other traditional guns, shooting round ball are more likely to move slow, choose their shots carefully, and let the game go if the shot is questionable. I know of a friend of a friend who shoots an inline, just as a way to take advantage of the ML season, who missed two Elk this year, and thought he missed one last year but I found it dead later in the spring, not too far from where he "missed" it. Of course that's an isolated example, but I do think that irresponsible hunters would be drawn to an inline and not a rock crusher or traditional hammer gun.

So, I don't know, not really a big problem I guess.

Is there any way to start petitioning the WI game dept. into putting ML season first? Letter campaign, emails, protests???

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #18 on:** December 29, 2003, 11:34:56 AM »

Ugh, Wisconsin is funny. The way the natural resources are managed is a bit more democratic. Such season changes would involve putting it up for a state-wide vote in which any citizen can show up and vote "yea" or "nay".

The rifle season is a "sacred cow" here. Many hunters only have time off during the 9-day and couldn't take advantage of other seasons if they wanted to. These guys don't want to give away the "first chance" to some small interest group.

Likewise, the bowhunters have become a powerful lobby too.

So if the ML's posed such a change you would see opposition from archery enthusiasts and regular rifle hunters who are stuck in the rifle season for whatever reason. The only way to convince them that it wouldn't affect them would be to severely limit the number of early muzzle loader hunters. If you did this by limiting it to flintlock only I think there would only be me and a few others who would push for it.

As soon as I mention pushing for an early season fellow muzzle loaders say "I'd support it if you allowed caplocks". But I can't get it through their heads that allowing caplocks will stir up opposition from rifle hunters and archery hunters.

I agree that the more "intense" the gun, the more cautious the user. They've done studies and found that shotguns are involved in more accidents than rifles. This may well be because the greenhorns are more apt to use a shotgun than a 7mm Mag.