Will just any old brass do for mild loads?

[briannmilewis]

Was just giving some thought to brass life, brass brands, and mild loads.

If I used an RCBS X-Die to maximize brass life, does it really matter what brand brass I buy if I am only going to load it to mild pressures?

Just occurred to me when reading about folks investing in Norma and Lapua brass for long case life, not for the consistency in case specs.

[Dand]

I'd say no.  While I  haven't heard of any really bad bottleneck rifle brass, there have been discussions here about bad handgun brass.  I forget the brands but I had some.  I was glad to read those discussions before I tried reloading the stuff. I sure don't want to waste good components on bad brass that may split, or otherwise perform badly on the second or 3rd reload.  Not worth my time or safety or damage to my gun. While I don't have experience with the brands of brass you mention, I think you get good consistency AND long life from what I've read. I believe that's why they are popular with the target shooters.  In my case, for my 30-06, I found that Rem brass lasted way longer than WW with the same load. I pretty much stick with Rem in the 06 now - those are full power loads.  In my 300 Win mag I have had good case life with WW and Rem. But some Fed I got started splitting case necks after 2-3 loads - granted they are top loads but my other brass will last 8-12 loadings with small case neck splits beginning to show. In my 223 I have good case life with all brands of brass I've tried. Same for 30-30.

[Swampman]

I've used all kinds without issues.

[Savage]

I use whatever brass I can pick up for all my reloading. Of course I'm not a bench rest shooter. My pistol loads make power factor for that particular cartridge, but are not max loads. My rifle loading is mostly confined to 5.56 these days for my ARs. loaded close to factory velocities in whatever brass I have on hand. I don't sort cases by number of firings or manufacturer. I use brass until it fails, or I lose it. It's worked for me for the 45+ years of reloading.
Savage

[necchi]

 Well to answer your topics question, when it comes to brass life as it applies to case head separation and/or neck splitting I'd say No it wouldn't matter for mild loads. But sooner or later your going to want to crank the velocity a little just to stretch that accuracy and flatten the curve to a longer range.

 I think there's other issues to consider in brass esp with over size chambers and long chamber necks in the Handy. Runout and uniform neck thickness is key to accuracy with these things no matter the charge. Alot can be done getting the die and sizing button set right, but bad brass is bad brass.

 I've messed with Winchester, Remington, Federal, and Lake City. About the only thing I can say is any Federal brass I pick up goes directly to the scrap bucket.

A factory hunting rifle will never make a bench gun, there's alot of brass prep that can improve accuracy of a factory rifle, but I don't think investing in Lapua brass will help.

[huntducks]

I don't buy Lapua for anything I own have bought some Norma real cheap new and 1x fired and see no advantage to it in a hunting rifle or pistol, nore do I think it last any longer then WW or Rem. brass to merit the cost.

[gr8ful]

So far I just use what i have and throw it away when it wears out.

[dovehunter]

...I found that Rem brass lasted way longer than WW with the same load...

Strange, I have found just the opposite to be true, particularly with handgun brass.

I have not experienced any particular problems with Federal brass.  As far as Norma or Lapua brass is concerned, I can't see any difference in case life, at least based on the fired cases I have picked up at the range.  Buying it new that stuff cost 2-3 times as much domestic brass and I can't imagine it would last proportionally longer.  I certainly would not pay that much extra for it.

[yooper77]

Was just giving some thought to brass life, brass brands, and mild loads.

If I used an RCBS X-Die to maximize brass life, does it really matter what brand brass I buy if I am only going to load it to mild pressures?

Just occurred to me when reading about folks investing in Norma and Lapua brass for long case life, not for the consistency in case specs.

How do you think the RCBS X-Die maximizes brass life?

I trim all my brass to the minimum and hardly ever find the need to re-trim.

I don’t buy any high priced brass, not worth the money in my eyes.

I use standard dies and anneal my brass for longer life without any problems to date.

yooper77

[Swampman]

I've also found Remington brass outlast all others.  My factory sporters will outshoot most heavy barreled varmint rifles.

[Catfish]

I do buy the high dollar brass for some guns, but as a rule I don`t think it worth it for a factoey chamber. As for brass life I a batch of Win. brass in 204 that junk, jusy plain a bad run of brass. I got out 5 case to test a rifle and 1 case split the first time it was loaded. 2 more split on the second loading and a 4 on the 5 th. loading. Also Fed. brass tends not to last as long as most other brands. That said, I usually get what`s cheapest, unless it for one of my special guns.

[41 mag]

With most of my rifles, I have loads worked up to the upper end that are usually used specifically for hunting when I am going to be on the edges of or overlooking wide open pastures. This could mean shots easily out to 400yds, so I want them as accurate and with as much punch as possible. These cases are usually Winchester or Remington, and are fully prepped each time I load them.

This said, I also have loads which are in the middle of the spectrum and usually utilize range brass, or once fired that has been given to me. With these I do not try to eek out the last bit of accuracy or velocity. I usually work these in the 2600 - 2800fps range depending on caliber, and anything under 2"" at 100yards is fine.  They are used when I am setting up a new scope simply to get it on paper, and when hunting back in the thicker woods where shots will only be up to 100 yards max. These are case that I sometimes find and sometimes don't. They all function fine and I do not worry about separating them by brands or anything else.

For general practice loads where your looking at getting trigger time I don't thing you can go wrong, I have some of the cases in the latter group that have over a dozen loads on them with no ill effects, and I usually only have to trim them about every 5th load. In fact I have backed off loading to top end for most of my rifles in general simply do to this. I do as mentioned keep some top end loads in the box and ready to go, and I load them in batches of 100 at a time. This means I only cycle through them may once in a year depending on if I use that rifle or not.

[Tom W.]

For moderate loads, and I imaging we're talking about rifle loads, I haven't had any issues unless I was fire forming some old plated brass in my 30-06 A.I, where I got head separation.  My Target rifle gets a sticky bolt with 45 grains of Varget and Federal brass, but shoots all day long with .44 grains.


 I've migrated to Remington brass for most of my shooting now, but my Son swears by Winchester.

[briannmilewis]

Terrific batch of replies guys, thanks very much.

[MNSHOOTER]

I was under the impression that lake city brass came from the federal plant in the twin city's or a suburb of such [ I think north St.Paul MN. ] The Difference is it is made to mil specs.[ much harder brass that factory federal]. I have found that if you take the time to anneal the federal and don't push it past max cup it lasts about like the rest. Lake City Brass will last a long time in 5.65 !!! I have some I have loaded 20 times before the mouths split.

[briannmilewis]

I was under the impression that lake city brass came from the federal plant in the twin city's or a suburb of such [ I think north St.Paul MN. ] The Difference is it is made to mil specs.[ much harder brass that factory federal]. I have found that if you take the time to anneal the federal and don't push it past max cup it lasts about like the rest. Lake City Brass will last a long time in 5.65 !!! I have some I have loaded 20 times before the mouths split.

The "real" Lake City ammo plant is a few miles up the road NE of Kansas City. I can drive there in about 45 minutes. If I was a lot younger and fitter, I would get a job there.

[mrussel]

I've also found Remington brass outlast all others.  My factory sporters will outshoot most heavy barreled varmint rifles.

Is an X-Die like Lees neck sizing dies? Sizing only the neck will definitely extend the life of your brass. On semi-autos it can lead to feeding problems.

[yooper77]

Is an X-Die like Lees neck sizing dies? Sizing only the neck will definitely extend the life of your brass. On semi-autos it can lead to feeding problems.

The RCBS X-die is a gimmick in my eyes. It’s a full length resizing die for bottleneck rifle cases and in order to use it you need to prepare your brass as follows:  All cases must be sized and trimmed to the same overall length. For the best results, full-length resize each case and trim to .020” under maximum case length. Sounds like fun for people that don't want to trim. See link: http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/XDieProductInstructions.pdf

This is funny, I trim all my brass to minimum case length and almost never have to re-trim. If I find the need to re-trim, guess what I trim them. Just stick to standard full length dies and do the work that’s been done for years and also include annealing and your brass will live on a long time.

I do have some neck sizer dies for my 243 Winchester and 270 Winchester, but I don’t ever use them anymore.

Going on for over 30 years, I simply anneal, full length size, always measure and trim, chamfer inside/outside case mouths, clean the primer pockets, and tumble my brass.

yooper77

[briannmilewis]

X-Dies stop brass growth with repeated resizing, even on semi-autos like M1s. They are a FL sizing die that mechanically prevent brass from flowing towards the neck when the case is resized, thus eliminating brass growth completely after a couple of thou initial increase after your second firing. Many experienced reloaders swear by them.

The idea is to NEVER trim more than the initial trim over the life of the case, not just occasionally when it needs it.

Therefore you never have to measure cases again either, use them confidently till they fail, if ever.

Use the X-Die in conjunction with a form/trim die, Lee bullet seating and factory crimp dies, Lee powder dippers, a simple balance beam scale, and mild loads, and you have the simplest and easiest of all reloading time saving processes. For beginners or experienced reloaders, this can be a Godsend.

[yooper77]

X-Dies stop brass growth with repeated resizing, even on semi-autos like M1s. They are a FL sizing die that mechanically prevent brass from flowing towards the neck when the case is resized, thus eliminating brass growth completely after a couple of thou initial increase after your second firing. Many experienced reloaders swear by them.

The idea is to NEVER trim more than the initial trim over the life of the case, not just occasionally when it needs it.

Therefore you never have to measure cases again either, use them confidently till they fail, if ever.

Use the X-Die in conjunction with a form/trim die, Lee bullet seating and factory crimp dies, Lee powder dippers, a simple balance beam scale, and mild loads, and you have the simplest and easiest of all reloading time saving processes. For beginners or experienced reloaders, this can be a Godsend.

Problem is there is a hidden truth to all this. The brass must flow somewhere, but don't take my experience please try it yourself. Also if not adjusted properly the cases will (bulge) buckle.

yooper77

[briannmilewis]

The where is "back where it came from in the first place". I am pretty sure this would be the meat in the sandwich that had to be proved for a successful patent. And a very big YES to adjusting them correctly, there are all sorts of horror accounts of folks not following instructions and being on the bad side of the results.

To me, opening up to the empirical evidence that X-Dies look to be a better mouse trap, is the same as accepting the empirical evidence that Lee dies can create bullet concentricity as good as or better than competition dies costing hundreds of $. Based on established thinking, both of these seem highly unlikely to be true.

I am new enough to reloading and shooting so I find it easy to accept that there will be and already are better ways to achieve things, innovation never stops. At the same time, I will not deny anyone their ways of doing things that have worked for many, many years, and I see no reason for folks to change just because of innovations. Those of us without lifetime investments in equipment and processes risk little by trying the new stuff. 

[yooper77]

All I can say is I am glad I didn't spend my money on them. The ones I used were bought by friends for friends and they didn't hold up to the task as advertised, so they failed in my eyes.

I wish you the best of luck in your RCBS X-die endeavors.

yooper77

[briannmilewis]

All I can say is I am glad I didn't spend my money on them. The ones I used were bought by friends for friends and they didn't hold up to the task as advertised, so they failed in my eyes.

I wish you the best of luck in your RCBS X-die endeavors.

yooper77

I will make sure I report back. Thanks for the advice.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree. I shoot my brass till they need triming and trim once to about .025 under max case lenght and very few cases live long enough to need a second trimming. Only place i could possibly see a need is in .223s for my ars. I usually trim every firing as the ars tend to let brass grow fast. If they didnt need it every time i doubt youd find one piece that didnt need it after two firings. Problem is that for my ars i small base size so an x die isnt what i want for that either. the work saver there is the dillon trimmer. 

Is an X-Die like Lees neck sizing dies? Sizing only the neck will definitely extend the life of your brass. On semi-autos it can lead to feeding problems.

The RCBS X-die is a gimmick in my eyes. It’s a full length resizing die for bottleneck rifle cases and in order to use it you need to prepare your brass as follows:  All cases must be sized and trimmed to the same overall length. For the best results, full-length resize each case and trim to .020” under maximum case length. Sounds like fun for people that don't want to trim. See link: http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/XDieProductInstructions.pdf

This is funny, I trim all my brass to minimum case length and almost never have to re-trim. If I find the need to re-trim, guess what I trim them. Just stick to standard full length dies and do the work that’s been done for years and also include annealing and your brass will live on a long time.

I do have some neck sizer dies for my 243 Winchester and 270 Winchester, but I don’t ever use them anymore.

Going on for over 30 years, I simply anneal, full length size, always measure and trim, chamfer inside/outside case mouths, clean the primer pockets, and tumble my brass.

yooper77

[fastchicken]

I must be holding my mouth wrong when I shoot, I find myself having to trim my 243 and 270 brass about every other loading. But that's with near max loads and apparently crappy Federal brass . Although I'm on about my 8th loading with that brass.