Author Topic: air traffic controllers  (Read 1006 times)

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: air traffic controllers
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2011, 10:25:13 AM »
sleeping on the job should lead to dismissal, just like in the real world.

YEP!
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Offline BBF

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Re: air traffic controllers
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2011, 05:29:36 AM »
Best of my recollection the slats as well as the flaps are deployed to increase lift not speed. Neither would be deployed on or near cruising speed.
 
The last time I was on a 737 if I recall it correctly we climbed at about 250-300 knots with a clean wing according to my GPS.
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Offline us920669

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Re: air traffic controllers
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2011, 07:07:48 AM »
That's right - only for take off and landing.  But this was thoroughly investigated at the time and pilots had "learned" that by introducing a little slats and then trimming other controls you could squeeze out a little more speed.  It made the wing bigger and more shaped, but the extra load eventually tore one slat completely off.  It was big news, spring or summer of '79.  This was on the 3 engine jet, used for short and medium hops.

Saw on TV last night that they are going to let controllers take short "rest breaks", or something.  Sounds like an excellent idea.  Further up the page the man who was a controller pointed out that some fields don't even use one at night.  I've done just a little flying - actually riding - in the third world, and believe me, the most slipshod practices you would ever see around here are state of the art compared to what goes on every day in some places.

Offline tallyho

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Re: air traffic controllers
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2011, 08:41:54 AM »
I have been in aviation since 1965, including a 5 year stint in ATC.

At the risk of sounding preachy, I say again, the words "control" and "controller" in my opinion, contribute to the media's and the public's misconceptions about the whole system. ATC does not actually control anything. They advise, suggest, recommend, and give clearances to pilots.

They have the equipment and training to gather more information and can see a bigger picture than most individual pilots. With that, they guide aircraft in such a way that the flow of air traffic continues to operate as safely and as smoothly as possible. They do not help or control the pilot with landing or take-off, they merely guide aircraft into a flow of enroute, landing or departing traffic. And it surprises some people that the pilot actually controls the airplane throughout.

ATC's primary job is to issue clearances, and directions in order to maintain separation between aircraft  - and there are many rules and guidelines in the ATC manual that cover how separation is determined. Truthfully, ATC is a necessary part of the modern air traffic system due to the complex activity of modern aviation, particularly around bustling airports

However, the fact that aircraft can and do land and take-off at airports (particularly at night) where there is no controller should come as no surprise to anyone who is even slightly familiar with the system. (hint, hint, Mr. FAA administrator and so called journalists)

When there is little or no bustle, aircraft can and do take care of their own separation on a regular basis. In fact it is happening somewhere in the US even as I type this, and will go on happening long after you've read it.

However as us920669 points out, in remote areas (and I have flown in remote areas) some practices could be labeled slipshod if applied to the ATC system and bustling modern airports. However in many cases they are simply practical methods adopted under local conditions and local customs.

Bottom line, from my personal experience, is that pilots for the most part do not want to end their careers and lives in a pile of smoldering wreckage. They will adopt whatever seems to be safe and efficient operational standards based on given conditions. It may look chaotic or even slipshod to some folks, but chances are, if you are one of them, you have considered the options and have chosen the one that seems most likely to result in you sleeping in your own bed at the end of the day.

Consider that recent news articles and some statements from those on high, have labeled aircraft landing without the help of ATC in the middle of the night, at sleepy, low activity airports as being slipshod and even dangerous operations. Yet, the pilots in those aircraft managed safe and effective landings under the given conditions. (I am willing to say slipshod is in the eye of the beholder.)

That being said, I have seen my share of idiots and bravado driven pilots, both in the bush and in civilization. There is no denying they exist, and there is really nothing, or no one to stop them from taking risks, not even ATC or the FAA. They can ignore rules and laws as long as they can get away with it. It ends of course when they choose to ignore the rules and laws of aerodynamics and gravity.

Speaking for myself (and most pilots I know) I'd rather end my flying career in old age, in my own bed, dreaming of... well, never mind what, just accept that I'll be dreaming of something interesting.  ;)
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