Author Topic: BPCR forum feedback (Read 1902 times)

ShortStake · « **on:** December 22, 2003, 07:00:12 AM »

Gents and Madams,

In discussion with GB considering the consolidation of Forums: Black Powder Cartridge Rifles AND Loading BPC with Black Powder. Obviously renaming same to reflect the content.

Comments?

Thanks.

Shorty · « **Reply #1 on:** December 22, 2003, 10:05:06 AM »

'Makes sense to me. If you're not loading BP into a PBCR anyway, you're covered at Single Shot Rifles. :wink:

J.W.Neely · « **Reply #2 on:** December 22, 2003, 10:44:04 PM »

That makes way too much sense.......do it.

First Shirt · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2003, 04:24:35 AM »

I'll second that emotion...

Greg

Lead pot · « **Reply #4 on:** December 24, 2003, 08:23:17 AM »

Go for it.

I think that would go good with Hicking and camping also.Boath go hand in hand.
Kurt

EDG · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2003, 11:16:42 AM »

I object!
The "Loading BPC with Black Powder" forum was started after I asked if discussion of reloading smokeless was permitted on the BPCR forum.
So will discussion of reloading with smokeless still be permitted on the BPCR? Is the BPCR to be a BLACK POWDER ONLY forum? It appears that BP shooters want to exclude the non-BP folks from discussing these rifles.

Ed

ShortStake · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2003, 11:36:57 AM »

Quote from: EDG

I object!
So will discussion of reloading with smokeless still be permitted on the BPCR? Is the BPCR to be a BLACK POWDER ONLY forum? It appears that BP shooters want to exclude the non-BP folks from discussing these rifles.

Ed

This merger is NOT an attempt to exclude anyone.

For those interested in utilizing BPCR's with smokeless powder there is a "SINGLE SHOT RIFLE" Forum open for discussion of single shot rifles of any time period.

BLACK POWDER Cartridge Rifles (BPCR) IS self explanatory!

The Forum titles and subject matter are meant to satisfy those that are interested in shooting BPCR's and loading same WITH Black Powder.

Best analogy that comes to mind is the MUZZLE LOADER Forum, cannot recall anyone there wanting to include smokeless powder in that discussion.

The Shrink · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2003, 08:14:25 PM »

Yeah, and I notice that there is also a forum for those shooting large bore rifles, and that includes most of the BP type calibers that you can shoot smokeless in as well.

Wayne

EDG · « **Reply #8 on:** December 25, 2003, 04:54:20 AM »

Graybeard permitted discussing loading with smokeless in BPCRS.
Are you changing Graybeard's policy?
I am not interested in jacketed bullets shot out of NEFs, bolt guns or double rifles.
Ed

ShortStake · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2003, 05:26:55 AM »

Quote from: EDG

Graybeard permitted discussing loading with smokeless in BPCRS.
Are you changing Graybeard's policy?
I am not interested in jacketed bullets shot out of NEFs, bolt guns or double rifles.
Ed

Ed,

Am unaware of any "policy". It appears you insist on the interjection of smokeless powder loading into what is plainly titled "Black Powder" on both exisiting Forums.

As has been aptly pointed out there are several other Forums on GB to address smokeless powder loading for Single Shot Rifles.

To my knowledge none of these other Forums are exclusive to "NEF's", or any particular single shot rifle. Perhaps your personal post pertinent to smokeless powder loading on "SINGLE SHOT RIFLES" Forum would invigorate discussion into the area you seek and demand?

To prostrate the BLACK POWDER subject and diminsh same for the overwhelming vast majority of interested parties, only to satisfy a minority audience, is to be counterproductive.

"BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE LOADING" and "BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE RIFLES" are the exclusive subjects of interest and to that it will remain.

EDG · « **Reply #10 on:** December 25, 2003, 08:40:56 AM »

>>>Am unaware of any "policy". It appears you insist on the interjection of smokeless powder loading into what is plainly titled "Black Powder" on both exisiting Forums. <<<

I asked Greybeard if BPCR was off limits to discussion of reloading and shooting smokeless before the before the exclusive reloading with black powder forum ever existed. He said it was OK. It appears that you are reversing Greybeard.

>>>To prostrate the BLACK POWDER subject and diminsh same for the overwhelming vast majority of interested parties, only to satisfy a minority audience, is to be counterproductive. <<<

I don't see how excluding me improves the subject. How diminished will the subject be if the participants are free to express a minority opinion or ask a minority question every now and then.

Ed

ShortStake · « **Reply #11 on:** December 25, 2003, 08:45:46 AM »

Ed,

When the two BLACK POWDER Forums being discussed merge the subject matter WILL be Black Powder and not Smokeless Powder..

Perhaps you need to discuss with GB whether or not you should be the moderator?

EDG · « **Reply #12 on:** December 25, 2003, 10:56:49 AM »

>>Perhaps you need to discuss with GB whether or not you should be the moderator?<<

Yes,
Perhaps I should, or you should ask him if he really did permit other loads to be discussed. You know if you narrow the scope of the forum enough you will only have the same small group of folks rehashing the same stuff.
Ed

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** December 25, 2003, 11:48:26 AM »

NOBODY reverses GB but GB himself. :eek:

EDG is correct. Back when I had my Browning HW Model 1885 BPCR I never once pulled the trigger on it with BP. I shot smokeless only. Someone perhaps EDG asked back then if it was acceptable to discuss the loading of smokeless in BPCRs on the forum of that name. I said yes. We did then after that set up a totally separate forum to discuss solely the use of BP in these rifles.

I recognize that not everyone wishes to use BP even if the rifle they shoot is called a BPCR by the manufacturer. If this is going to cause a problem in that regard we'll leave them as is.

Discussion of the use of Smokeless Powder in BPCRs is acceptable on the Forum that goes under the title of Black Powder Cartridge Rifles in spite of it being situated under the Section for Black Powder guns. I made this decision way back when we started the forum and see no good reason to reverse it at this time. That was the sole reason for the establishment of the other forum for use of BP in the rifles so it could be a pure BP forum.

At that time there was minimal discussion on the new forum. As you can see it still has way fewer total threads and posts. Yet lately the other one labeled only BPCR has fallen into disuse. All I want to know is if there is adequate interest in these subjects to keep them on the site.

GB

ShortStake · « **Reply #14 on:** December 25, 2003, 01:16:53 PM »

GB, Ed, Gents and Madams,

Cannot reverse something that wasn't familiar to me in the first place.

If a Moderator is expected to Moderate than that should be the order of the day. As in life, one cannot be given Responsibility without commensurate Authority. To do so is and always will be non functional.

If dredging up the past appears to be satisfactory to get ones way than so be it.

Gun Forums are like Newstand Publications. Lots of Gun Magazines. Lots of Forums. Some very general, some oriented towards handguns only, some towards rifles. but there is only ONE publication about Black Powder Cartridge Rifles. Guess that is the single point I have been trying to get across. As ususal in life, If enough sniveling occurs loss of direction occurs.

To satisfy Ed of Texas and his penchant for inclusion of Smokeless Powder into an obviously misnamed Forum, please accept my resignation as Moderator. My nomination for Moderator of the "Black Powder loading of Cartridges for Black Powder Cartridge Rifles" is Engineer Ed of Texas who can share all his vast accumulation of knowledge and wisdom on the subject.

In the future I will continue to share my Black Powder Loading and Shooting comments with those that are interested. Either here or elsewhere.

It took me forty five plus years of shooting about every type of firearm known to exist in North America and many places in the world BEFORE discovering the pleasure of shooting Black Powder Cartridge Rifles WITH Black Powder. Hopefully, the pleasures derived from loading Black Powder into cartridges and using same in Black Powder Cartridge Rifles can be experienced by those that have not yet had this opportunity.

Respectfully,

Lead pot · « **Reply #15 on:** December 25, 2003, 06:21:42 PM »

GB.
In this case Windcutter is right.This is a BPCR forum,to me this means just what it says Blackpowder Cartridge Rifles shooting Black Powder.
Windcutter being a Moderator for this site I would think he would have your support.
I'm sorry GB that is my feeling also.If you wont support your Moderators I will also have to resign as Moderator.

Kurt. "Lead Pot"

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #16 on:** December 26, 2003, 02:21:41 AM »

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa....hold up there amigos!!! Haul in on the reins a bit there afore this wagon gits outta control!

Pards, I visit a number of web sites and once in a while things git outta control 'n the wagon spills. I'd hate ta see that happen here!!! GBs is the place I come to unlax 'n git straight answers along with good company! I don' wanna see the wagon masters 'n the trail boss get so upset wif each other that the drive falls apart! (yeah I'm one 'o them goofy cowboy action shooters :wink: )

Now, First let me offer an apology to Windcutter fer my flippant answer to this same question on the other forum concerning BPCR! No harm intended..I tried to show that with the use of the winkin' smiley! Pax Pard? I have a great deal of respect for GB and you moderaters, you all do a wonderful service here.

The nature of net boards being what it is sometimes folks end up gettin a might confused about where to ask a question, and sumtimes a pard jist wants ta ask sumpthin unrelated to the subject, and he/she is more comfortable askin things of people he's already familier with and has built a "relationship" with. I see this all the time, a feller comes on a CAS board with a question about his new Buck Rogers, full auto, Nicomidan Ray Blaster, wantin to know iffin he can use Energon Cubes in it instead of the factory recommended Sylth Cartridges. And generally speaking, someone will either have the answer for him or can steer him to the place to find the answer. I've done that sorta thing myownself here on GBs boards, din' have the answers fer a new pard, but figgered I knew where ta send him to find the xperts here. No big deal, right? (and truth be told, sumtimes we find the answers to our questions from unexpected places because the feller with years of experiance in dealing with Nicomidan Ray Blasters has moved on and his interests are now in BPCRs :lol: )

So how about every one ease up, take a breather, and maybe hash this out out between yerselves with PMs? I don't don't want to loose anything or anyone here over this, because you all are a very precious resource to an old idiot like me! I need you!

The above was written a bit "tongue in cheek" but with all due respect for Graybeard, Windcutter, Lead Pot, & all the folks here who keep me from doing really stupid things with guns, reloading componants, and women! Bless you all, and Happy Holidays!

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** December 26, 2003, 03:31:08 AM »

Resignations reluctantly accepted. Should you wish to change your mind feel free to do so and let me know. I'll gladly add you back again just for the asking.

The one thing that I absolutely insist on at this site is that we do not make personal attacks or call names or speak evil of each other. I don't allow foul language or lewd ideas to be posted. When someone asks a question I expect they will be treated with respect even if it comes on the wrong forum. Those are absolutes here.

This particular forum was set up by me because at the time I personally owned a Browning HW 1885 BPCR and wanted a place to discuss BPCRs as a generic group other than just as Single Shot Rifles on the SSRF. I had two forum going at the time. One was in a section having to do with the use of the gun in competition and since most all competitions require the use of BP or a substitute it followed that one was for discussion only of the use of BP and substitutes. I wanted one to also discuss MY PERSONAL USE OF MY BPCR with smokeless. Thus this forum came to be. I stated very clearly at that time it would include the discussion of smokeless powder and that for those who didn't wish to do that we also had another BPCR forum where only the real stuff or the approved substitutes would be discussed. That this forum is the one that proved to be most used is merely the way things happened. I would have expected the other to have been the most used.

I guess the thing that most concerns me in this is that we as shooters and hunters seem to prefer to bash each other and to think OUR way is the ONLY way. We seem to forget that all of us who participate in what I call the "blood sports" ie, hunting, fishing and trapping where we take the lives of our quarry are in this together. The ONLY enemy is the antis. Yet we fight amongst ourselves instead of standing together against the real enemy. For that reason I have no doubt we'll lose in the long run and the antis will win. They are united against all of us. They are willing to bide their time and take whatever small victory they can win today and fight again tomorrow. They take advantage of our devisciness over such issues as whether it is OK to shoot smokeless in our BPCRs or muzzle loaders and so many other issues that divide us to use us against each other. That is the shame of it.

I always have and always will back my Moderators in decisions they make on issues not already decided. Even if the decision they make is NOT the one I'd have made had I been consulted. I've done this several times. But I will NOT back someone who makes a decision that is counter to one I've already made and announced EVEN if they didn't know of the decision at the time. If this offends then I'm sorry but that's the way it must be.

Since I'm not looking for the resignation of either of you two and think if you'll look at it from my perspective as stated above you might want to reconsider I'll give you 24 hours to cool down and rethink it. If you wish to stay just let me know in that time period. If not then tomorrow morning I'll remove you from the positions as requested and we'll move on from there. I've certainly had others wish to do the same before. I've suffered thru a max departure of Moderators once before when I caught one lying publicly to the harm of myself and a close friend. I fired that moderator and others who called him friend left in protest. I'll work thru it again if that is what is necessary.

The one thing I will not do is change the way I run this site. I set out a certain set of values for it to live up to when I started it and those values have not wavered one inch since and will not. I feel it is because of them that the site has grown as it has. I've been pressured many times to change to be more popular or more PC and I have refused. This caused a number of folks to leave the TC Forums once and the SSRF once. Both are still open forums and gettng as much discussion on subject as they ever have.

So the ball is in your court. You have 24 hours to let me know you really don't wanna resign. If I don't hear from you I will remove you as requested.

GB

Lead pot · « **Reply #18 on:** December 26, 2003, 04:34:17 AM »

GB.

For 40+ years I been shooting these fine what I call powder rifles,and a veriaty of fine smokless firearms,I like them all.

But black powder rifles are just that.Black Powder Rifles.There is a reason most modern BLACK POWDER RIFLES are ingraved on the barrel or written on the paperwork for Black Powder use only.

I know some Manufactures state exceptions for some calibers it is ok(.38-55 and .45-70 comes to mind) but some of those commercial loads are designd for the older vintage firearms.But when a new commer comes on this forum and is looking for imformation on "how to"and reads a careless posting from a person who read it someplace or just thinks it's the "cool"thing to do. If I was the Moderator on this forum I would have a bad conscience, both for a liability for myself and GB Outdoors,and some poor soul getting hurt. I would think.

No GB.I'm sorry my dicion to resign will stand.

Kurt "Lead Pot."

rdnck · « **Reply #19 on:** December 30, 2003, 03:34:43 AM »

I'm with Windcutter and Lead Pot. I'm outta here. rdnck.

ShortStake · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2003, 05:08:03 AM »

Gents and Madams,

PLEASE read GrayBeard's STICKY note posted on each of the Black Powder Forums under my Moderation.

Believe you will find a Mutual understanding satisfactory to most ALL interested persons.

Your co-operation in spreading this word is solicited........

Muchas Gracias,