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Author Topic: Jet con trails  (Read 772 times)

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Offline magooch

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Jet con trails
« on: May 12, 2011, 11:20:32 AM »
A couple of days ago the sky was nice and clear and what sounded like a fighter jet went over.  By the sound, it was pretty high up, but there was no con trail.  We live right under a main flyway for airliners and they were leaving con trails. 

A day later, the sky was still nice and blue and this time a couple of fighters went over; again at high altitude.  No con trails.  At the very same time there were remnants of airliner trails.  I realize that there might be a difference in altitude, but I can't imagine that the fighters were in some kind of warm zone.

So, has the military found some way to hide their exhaust?  It got me to thinking that maybe the jets I'm hearing are stealth fighters.  It wouldn't do a lot of good to be radar stealthy if all you had to do was find the vapor trail.  Anyone?
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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 12:00:26 PM »
I would think that there are alot of variables where contrails are visible or not. Altitude, air temp, exhaust temp, humidity, etc, etc.  I am definently a plane watcher, (real ones have propellers  ;) ), and have watched aircraft at high altitude leaving a contrail suddenly have it stop only to resume later. I'm not sure how many variables are involved beyond the warm exhaust meeting cold air, condensation thing but...........

Wouldn't that be neat though, if exhaust gasses could be cooled to eliminate the contrail? They could have it already, who knows??
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Offline OR-E-Gun Bill

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2011, 12:02:37 PM »
Being another who lives directly under the commercial airway but in Oregon, I've asked that question myself. The best explaination I've found so far is :
"Because the Federal Aviation Authority requires military tankers and transporters to cross continental airspace at altitudes below 30,000 feet, ensuring safe separation from airliners flying between 35,000 and 39,000 feet, these military flights should leave no contrails at all."
Makes some sense but who can trust anything the government tells you these days.
The helos that fly over not making any noise are kinda spooky too.  ;)

Bill
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2011, 12:09:14 PM »
SR 71s and I would guess the U-2s had some type of additive to not leave trails.
GuzziJohn
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Offline Shu

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 12:40:19 PM »
Humidty is the most likely cause of contrails. We don't have alot of contrails in the desert.

SR71 and U2 fly above any water vapor that could cause contrails. When they came back in it was usually at a very steep path and they were trying to slow down and the exhaust would be a bit cooler.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 01:34:34 PM »
I figure that its simple budget cuts. Contrails cost money ya know. POWDERMAN.  :D :D :D ;) ;) ;)
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2011, 03:52:09 PM »
Altatude has a lot to do with it.  Magooch said these fighters were pretty high up.  Fighters can fly at any altitude, but when crossing country they l;ike to be higher than the rest of the traffic since they are usually flying a lot faster than transports or airliners.  Up real high there is no moisture to cause the con trail.  The con stands for condensation, no moisture no condensation, no contrail. 
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Offline magooch

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 05:10:35 AM »
I remember when I was stationed at Eilson and once in a while we would have an aircraft over fly the base that was at extreme altitude and breaking the sound barrier.  As I remember it, those planes didn't leave a trail either.  I always thought they were Russian spy planes.  We didn't have anything that could catch them anyway.  Our scramblers were F-102's and later F-106's.
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 05:30:29 AM »
Burning jet fuel or gasoline makes water vapor. Even burning firewood forms water vapor. Sometimes contrails are real short, if you will notice, and you can watch then fade out behind the jet. How well the atmosphere that they are flying in causes the contrail to be visible or disapates  the contrail determins it's length. The water vapor is always there, the visiblity of it due to atmospheric conditions is the variable. ear
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Offline JustaShooter

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 06:04:13 PM »
Quote from: magooch on May 13, 2011, 05:10:35 AM
I remember when I was stationed at Eilson and once in a while we would have an aircraft over fly the base that was at extreme altitude and breaking the sound barrier.  As I remember it, those planes didn't leave a trail either.  I always thought they were Russian spy planes.  We didn't have anything that could catch them anyway.  Our scramblers were F-102's and later F-106's.

I used to visit a viewing area overlooking the flight line at Griffis AFB as a lad.  We had some of those high-altitude flyovers that didn't leave contrails too, but I always figured them for our boys  ;D  Anyway, we had alert crews standing ready by their BUFFs (B52s, Big Ugly Fat Fellows) and F-106 Delta Darts.  They might not have been able to intercept those high altitude flyovers had they wanted to, but they could get the entire alert team off the ground faster than I thought possible.  Those BUFFs made a heck of a racket under full thrust! 

It was a lot more fun watching the F16s scramble when I was living on another air base some years later.  Man those things could move!

Just a Shooter (and Air Force brat)
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Offline spikehorn

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2011, 08:16:59 AM »
It would seem that after burners would reduce the moisture content of the exhaust also
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2011, 09:58:05 AM »
Quote from: spikehorn on May 14, 2011, 08:16:59 AM
It would seem that after burners would reduce the moisture content of the exhaust also

After burners induct extra air and complete the burning of unburned fuel thus yeilding a little bit more H2O. ear
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Offline Hooker

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2011, 02:24:23 PM »
Not usually the best with the facts this time Wiki does a very good job with this subject and they explain it bet than I could.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail


Pat
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2011, 11:24:32 PM »
I noticed an unusual amount of Contrails over Houston--the day after OBL was found killed.
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2011, 02:30:00 AM »
Contrails also occur when UFOs flush their waste containment systems.  ;)
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Offline no guns here

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2011, 03:17:32 AM »
Yep... a lot of research has been done to find ways to cool and disperse the exhaust.  Maybe that has to do with the lack of contrails, maybe it was just atmospherics.  For the military it all has to do with survivability.  Contrails are like a huge arrow pointing to the target.  Cooling and dispersing exhaust also helps to defeat or to reduce the effectiveness of heat-seeking and infrared targeting systems.


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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Jet con trails
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2011, 03:33:30 AM »
Here's what gypsyman knows about contrails. Their either from a military plane, or a commericial plane. That means capitolism, or freedom. And, I like 'em!! :) gypsyman
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