Long range .308 recomendations?

[Bugflipper]

Hello, I am looking for a bolt action long range rifle for mainly target. I got out of long range shooting about 10-12 years ago. I took a quick look and it is a bit overwhelming now. Range is just the standard 800 yard and under. Just hobby, not competition. No preference on brand right now.
 I guess any run of the mill varmint rifle will work.  Will provide links to some main manufacturer sites I can think of so please link up for me. I have been away from them too long to know what the models and abbreviations are. Budget is $1500 for rifle only. Less is always better. I don't like fancy rifles. Just plain old flat black with synthetic stock. Would like a heavy barrel for extended shooting sessions. Definitely want accuracy over looks.
Many thanks in advance gentlemen.

http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/category.asp?family=001C
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/allfirearms/
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/by-category/rifles/
http://www.tikka.fi/t3rifles.php
http://www.legacysports.com/index.html

[chutesnreloads]

I'd suggest your first look be the savage heavy barreled rifles.Very accurate and well in your budget....use the extra cash on optics

[Steelbanger]

Another suggestion, Ruger. This target model has their two stage target trigger.

http://www.ruger.com/products/m77MarkIITarget/models.html

[semperfi1970]

Steelbanger, I here what you are saying about the Ruger but the trigger is crap compaired to the Savage.  Here is my Ruger mkIIvt you speak of in .220 swift, great gun but crappy trigger at 4lbs like they all are. Bugflipper I would recomend the Savage 10 flcp-k or the 10 fp-sr for the same money you get a better trigger and as good of a action in the plain stock you like. For the extra bucks I would get the 12 f/tr and now you have a 30" barrel and a 1.5lbs trigger on a much more solid action. Just my 2 cents.

In defence of the ruger it has the smoothist action there is seing how it is modeled after the mauser and has a no fail posative extractor.

[Bugflipper]

I really don't know about the savages. Their whole appeal was price point. Now the msrp is as high or higher than the others. I had a 12fv 12 or so years ago in 22-250. It was $350 new. Under an inch out of the box. With a little trigger work and bore polishing it usually hovered around .5" give or take. The problem with it was the flimsy stock. Bags or bench and it did fine. Prone off a bipod and it was iffy for long range on groundhogs. Nurse the light stock and it would knock them over as far as my ability would allow. I know they have the accustock now. But the price difference is more than a comparable aftermarket stock.

Right now I am looking into the http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx It has the aluminum bedded hogue stock and is threaded so I can put a muzzle brake on it. They are going for $600. The savage counterpart still has that flimsy stock they had years ago. This is the comparable model that sales for the same price. http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FPSR

I am still not on either side of the fence. Just disappointed in savage as a company. Not to long ago their comparable model would have been $200 cheaper and that would have been incentive to buy. With the right load, trigger adjusted and bore polished both of these rifles should be .5" or a hair under off the bench. But the sorry stocked savage most likely will give trouble with a harris bipod on uneven ground. I could get an aftermarket stock, or pay more for an accustock model. But I can't see paying more for something when the other one is just as good. Funny thing this is why I had savages years ago.  Any advise is appreciated. Even if it's not these two rifles. Also looking at the http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa_hoguehvybarrel.html and http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-550-varmint/.

Thanks

[nomosendero]

I really don't know about the savages. Their whole appeal was price point. Now the msrp is as high or higher than the others. I had a 12fv 12 or so years ago in 22-250. It was $350 new. Under an inch out of the box. With a little trigger work and bore polishing it usually hovered around .5" give or take. The problem with it was the flimsy stock. Bags or bench and it did fine. Prone off a bipod and it was iffy for long range on groundhogs. Nurse the light stock and it would knock them over as far as my ability would allow. I know they have the accustock now. But the price difference is more than a comparable aftermarket stock.

Right now I am looking into the http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx It has the aluminum bedded hogue stock and is threaded so I can put a muzzle brake on it. They are going for $600. The savage counterpart still has that flimsy stock they had years ago. This is the comparable model that sales for the same price. http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FPSR

I am still not on either side of the fence. Just disappointed in savage as a company. Not to long ago their comparable model would have been $200 cheaper and that would have been incentive to buy. With the right load, trigger adjusted and bore polished both of these rifles should be .5" or a hair under off the bench. But the sorry stocked savage most likely will give trouble with a harris bipod on uneven ground. I could get an aftermarket stock, or pay more for an accustock model. But I can't see paying more for something when the other one is just as good. Funny thing this is why I had savages years ago.  Any advise is appreciated. Even if it's not these two rifles. Also looking at the http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa_hoguehvybarrel.html and http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-550-varmint/.

Thanks

Actually, that Remington has the Alum. pillars, not the Alum. bedded stock. I wish Rem would have done the alum bed with this version & bumped the price 75.00 or so, you could just skim bed it & be in good shape, I am puzzled why Rem did not do this, because they still offer the
SPS Tactical, really the same rifle except the stock is black & the receiver is non threaded. I am seriously considering buying one of these threaded versions &bedding the stock myself. And yes, these soft stocks can be bedded if roughed-up first & the right compound.
bedding the stock, it flexes much as the sav. forend.
I like the 20" barrel for my use, which is hunting/tact/range shooting, mostly at 700 yds & less. I have a couple of rifles better suited for
800 yds & beyond. So for me the 20" makes sense because the 308 loses a small amt of vel compared to the bigger rounds as you reduce the
barrel (to a point) Vel. comparison & other good 308 stuff here:  http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html
And yes the shorter tube will do it all if needed.

However, if you are really going to use the rifle as in your original post, then a little more barrel length would give you a slight addition of vel, which would help you a wee at the longest ranges & portability would be of no relevance. And in that case one of the longer barrel Savages
already set up for this makes some sense. Also, the Howa barrelled action with a custom stock is well within your price & is very good, also the Rem 5R on the upper end. And of course buying a used Rem at a good price & getting a custom stck/barrel works as well.
Alot of good choices indeed!!

[Bugflipper]

Yes sir, you are right on the hogue om being able to be bedded. I have done 3 with accraglass. Just a rough up with a rasp, as easy as any other stock.

I respect you guys opinion on the longer barrel for velocity. I just really don't think that is for me. I will admit that I have never shot one of those 30 inchers, so just personal bias only. But we used to shoot 16" 1.12-1.25" diameter barrels in 6mm class. The idea was short and stubby to be effected less by harmonics. I'm pretty set in my ways so 20 inch to me is a good compromise for harmonics vs. velocity. I doubt I will chop the barrel down to 16" but I do intend to cut an 11 degree crown on whatever I get. I can also thread the barrel myself. But if they do it for me I won't complain. 
Thanks

[Sourdough]

I am a long distance hunter, I shoot a Weatherby 338/378 and have taken Moose out to 810 yards, one shot.

So when my son decided to get into long distance shooting for sheep, he went and talked to one of the best gunsmiths in town.  My son also did a lot of research on forums on line.  He ended up with a Savage, in 30-06.  He really likes the accutrigger that came on the gun.  He is now working out to 700 yards.

He has found the 165 gr bullet gives him the best results.  Not sure which bullet and brand he has settled on.

[parkergunshop]

If I had a budget of $1500 for a long range 30 caliber,  I would opt for a premium after market barrel probably stainless steel in 30/338 Mag or the .308 Norma Mag on a Savage 110 Action with the Accura-Trigger or a Remington 700 with a custom trigger.   I would put it in a glas bedded laminated wood stock which are stronger and even more stable than most of the synthetic stocks.  glas bed the full length of the action and the first two inches of the barrel in front of the receiver, float the remainder of the barrel. For long range shooting the extra weight of the laminated wood stock is an asset.

Groups from my Savage 110 with a Shaw .308 Norma Mag heavy sporter barrel with both 165 and 150 grain bullets. This barrel action  is glas bedded in a laminated walnut/maple stock.  Velocity for these loads run from 3018 to 3320  feet per second.  Top load with the 165 grain was 3145 feet per second.

.532, .617, .750, .555, .572, .762 at 100 yards.

The .308 Norma or its twin the 30/338 are easy to  reload and as efficient as you can get in the .30 caliber bore.  They are better than the .300 Winchester Mag round with its short neck that is a hinderance when reloading.

I know of no gunsmith who has a good opinion of the Ruger 77 action as the basis for a super accurate rifle.  Investment casting is cheaper not better in many respects, the tolerances are somewhat sloppy and the bolt lug to receiver bearing surfaces are not true, in some cases they have a tendency to string shots vertically on the target, points to uneven lug contact.

[john keyes]

used FN A3 or Les Baer

[helotaxi]

My suggestion is to find a used Savage or new Stevens which you should be able to get cheap and tear it down. 

Find a stock you like.  The factory stock on the Savage that you linked above is junk, but so is the stock on the Remington only disguised as a decent stock.  Either would need to be replaced.

Decide on a caliber and barrel brand and buy one of the myriad Savage drop in barrels and install it on the action.

Decide if you like the Accu-trigger if the donor action you found has one.  If you don't or it doesn't, find one of the aftermarket triggers that you like.  Once again, you'd be doing the same thing with the Remington.

I've built two in similar fashion this year using new rifles from Wal-Mart (I wanted the barrels as well as the actions) and I'm not into either for more than $800 excluding optics.

[STRANGE1]

My suggestion is to find a used Savage or new Stevens which you should be able to get cheap and tear it down. 

Find a stock you like.  The factory stock on the Savage that you linked above is junk, but so is the stock on the Remington only disguised as a decent stock.  Either would need to be replaced.

Decide on a caliber and barrel brand and buy one of the myriad Savage drop in barrels and install it on the action.

Decide if you like the Accu-trigger if the donor action you found has one.  If you don't or it doesn't, find one of the aftermarket triggers that you like.  Once again, you'd be doing the same thing with the Remington.

I've built two in similar fashion this year using new rifles from Wal-Mart (I wanted the barrels as well as the actions) and I'm not into either for more than $800 excluding optics.

x2.

I looked at the remington tactical rifle (in .223) friday.  I decided to stick with my stevens model 200.  The only advantage the remi had over my 200 was a stock and a 20" heavy barrel.  after finding out the stock is only pillar bedded, i decided it was possible to put a new stock and new barrel on the stevens cheaper than i could buy the remi.  and if you figure in the $200 purchase price, i am right in the same ballpark.  Plus i am having a lot of fun tinkering and learning about how my gun works in process.

btw, here is the review that got me interested in the Remi.  sounds like a very solid rifle.  http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm

[ShooterSATX]

Sorry for the late reply.

I am a .308 fan! A couple of years ago a buddy of mine turned me on to the Savage 10FPLE2 model. It's a heavy barreled rifle designed for Law Enforcement. With my hand loaded hunting ammo (Sierra 150gr Gamekings w/44gr IMR4064 powder), I put down 1/4-inch groups on a regular basis.

Another buddy of mine uses a Remi VTR and comes pretty close to what the Savage will do...but it's little more money.

It is really hard to beat Savage accuracy.

Good luck!

Shooter

[Bugflipper]

I ended up going with a cz 550 kevlar stock. I lapped and bedded, polished the trigger and cut a new crown. Haven't had time to work up loads. With milsurp 168  m852 rounds it's printing just a hair under a .5". When I have time to fire form and neck size maybe I can get them to shrink even more. Thanks for the help guys.

[Bigeasy]

Glad you are having good luck with the CZ.  They are kind of a "dark horse", in that all you ever really hear about is the .22 rimfire versions.  It was my good experience with the .22 version that led me to buy a heavy barrel CZ .204 Ruger a few years ago.  It has the set trigger, and will shoot 1/2 at 100 yards with cheap walmart Winchester 34 grain.  Handloads using Sierra bullets can hit 1/3 on a good day.  Very nice for a stock rifle.

Larry

[nomosendero]

Glad you are having good luck with the CZ.  They are kind of a "dark horse", in that all you ever really hear about is the .22 rimfire versions.  It was my good experience with the .22 version that led me to buy a heavy barrel CZ .204 Ruger a few years ago.  It has the set trigger, and will shoot 1/2 at 100 yards with cheap walmart Winchester 34 grain.  Handloads using Sierra bullets can hit 1/3 on a good day.  Very nice for a stock rifle.

Larry

Yes, I feel they are underated. Is yours the syn. version?

[Bigeasy]

Glad you are having good luck with the CZ.  They are kind of a "dark horse", in that all you ever really hear about is the .22 rimfire versions.  It was my good experience with the .22 version that led me to buy a heavy barrel CZ .204 Ruger a few years ago.  It has the set trigger, and will shoot 1/2 at 100 yards with cheap walmart Winchester 34 grain.  Handloads using Sierra bullets can hit 1/3 on a good day.  Very nice for a stock rifle.

Larry

Yes, I feel they are underated. Is yours the syn. version?

Wood stocked, 2nd from the top, with the flashlite attached (coyote hunting at night).

Larry

[Bugflipper]

That's a nice one there. I tend to be rough on stocks so I just go with black ones. Can't argue that the wood stocks look a whole lot better though.
 The 22s are the same reason I tried the cz. For the 22 I could put $800 in a 10-22 to make it a hair less than .5" at 50, or buy a stock cz. After a little work and some money, which is only the added cost of acraglass they will go under .25 at 50.

Here is my group after fire forming and neck sizing. Just a tried and trued load I use in a hk 91 that is set up for precision shooting. If they would punch holes instead of tear it would have been better.

175 gr Berger match
Laupau brass
2.925 OAL
CCI BR2 Primer(slightly flattened)
45 gr Varget
A hair over 2700 fps

[Bigeasy]

Now thats an accurate rifle..

Larry

[Bugflipper]

Dag nabbit, my words got jumbled above. I meant to say I like the wood stocks a whole lot better but I tear them up to much, Nice guns there Larry.

[DC]

Bugflipper's rifle is great but so is the shooter.  It doesn't matter how accurate the rifle is if the person behind the trigger can't shoot.  As for barrel length, there is some great information on barrel length and muzzel velocity / accuracy numbers.  As it turns out, a 20" barrel on a 308 is optimum.  No velocity is lost between 26" and 20".  Only 30+fps is lost when you drop to 18".  You will find that most law enforcement swat units use 18-20" .308s.  Also with the shorter barrel, vibration and "whip" is reduced.  Here is an interesting article: http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/
 

[RaySendero]

Rem M700P LTR in 308:
 

[swifty22]

Buggy- Like your post. I had a M77 Varmint in 308 and it shot really well, usually one hole at 100 w/168 Sierra MK and H-4895  W/my 6.5X20 Leupold. I used it for shooting ground squirrels out to about 500 yds or so, they didn't like it! Didn't expand but you could see and hit em'. What I didn't like was the recoil as you couldn't see the bullet strike. I had an older Savage 110 .223 Rem and bought a Sharp Shooter's Supply 1x8 twist heavy bbl. that shoots even better (using same scope). I use 69gr Sierra (more available) or 75 gr Horn A-max (not moly). with 23-24 gr. H-4895 and specifically newer LC mil cases or WW commercial and either WSR or Rem 71/2 primers. DON'T use Federal cases (too soft) especially in an AR. The great thing is that you can see the bullet strike, it shoots flatter than the .308, uses less powder, bullets are much cheaper and the A-Max expand quite well out to at least 450 yds. on squirrels. It isn't the fastest ctg. but it goes about 2750 Fps while the 168 MK in a 308 does about 2600 in an average barrel. I Don't mean to step on anyone's favorite but the 223 w/heavy bullets is much cheaper, shooter friendly and isn't any more wind prone than the 168 or 175 gr Sierra MK. My 2 cents-Muddy   

[Fire Fox]

I have never been a fan of the 308 for long range or hunting ( like the 7 mag better). However, I have a friend that has a 308 Savage Tactic rifle that would be a very good contender for a long range rifle. He has used this rifle for target and hunting just about everything with outstanding accuracy and efficiency. It always has shot very well has a great trigger system and is not fussy with bullet weight, powder type or brass type. Sounds to me like a good start for a rifle in this caliber. Hope this helps.

[nomosendero]

Rem M700P LTR in 308:
 

I looked at the group & thought, yea that's decent. Then I saw it said 200yds, good shooting Ray!!

[nomosendero]

Bugflipper's rifle is great but so is the shooter.  It doesn't matter how accurate the rifle is if the person behind the trigger can't shoot.  As for barrel length, there is some great information on barrel length and muzzel velocity / accuracy numbers.  As it turns out, a 20" barrel on a 308 is optimum.  No velocity is lost between 26" and 20".  Only 30+fps is lost when you drop to 18".  You will find that most law enforcement swat units use 18-20" .308s.  Also with the shorter barrel, vibration and "whip" is reduced.  Here is an interesting article: http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

I agree in general about the 20" barrels & they are my personal favorite, though no length is perfect for everything.
It would be more accurate to say you don't give up much velocity going from 26" down to 20", but with optimal long range loads with 175 gr or bullets like the 185Berger you will lose some velocity. It's easy to miss it in the article, but they actually said you would lose no velocity when using the Fed 168 load, a load that is the standard with many Swat teams and others & when they said the 20" is optimal, they were in reference to urban applications, but it is great for hunting too.

I feel the 20" is a great tradeoff for me,  as the modest case is very efficient.
 
The above article is a good & honest writeup. They also said the 300WM works well with the 22", but also conceded that with slow powders & heavy bullets the 300WM does better with
24-26" barrels. Indeed, I get 3150 with a 180 in my 26"Sendero 300WM, try that with a 22" &
you will have pressure issues before you get there. 24" is great for most in that round.
 
Here is a very good article on the 308 & barrel length is discussed:
http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

[RaySendero]

I looked at the group & thought, yea that's decent. Then I saw it said 200yds, good shooting Ray!!

 
Thx - But, my son shot that group.  I'll tell him what you said.
 
BTW - DC,  that's also a 20 " bull barrel.