Is this a deal?

[Co. Batguano]

I was in a local black powder gun store the other day.  1st time I'd ever been there.  The shop owner had a  2 1/4" swivel gun in a nice bridle on a (home made, but nicely done) pedestal, with a nicely done tail stock handle attached.  There were a nice collection of loading and cleaning tools (2 worms, linstock, 2 swabs, ram, brush, scraper), a box full of other stuff (wooden blocks, cartridge making dies, cannon ball mould, 3 dozen cast cannon balls, and a bunch of stuff I didn't know exactly what it was.  The shop owner said it was a Steen gun (the trunnions were below the center line), but it looked like a purely cast iron (painted black) gun to me.  And Steen looks like they polish their guns nicer than this one was done.  I did not detect any barrel liner at all.   I'm thinking it's maybe a Hern carronade gun (without the loop on the cascable), as there was a flat area near the touch hole, but I can't tell for sure about who the manufacturer was.  He had a price of $2000 on the piece.  It looked like the left trunnion was marked with a script A, and there were no stampings on the muzzle.  I couldn't tell if the barrel was lined or not.  If it was, it wasn't obvious (to me).  Lots of paint there.

Is that a deal, considering all the stuff that was with it?  I'm thinking about throwing the guy a bid, but I'd like to know what it's worth in the end first.  If you bid it, you'd better be prepared to buy it!

[Cannoneer]

I'll guarantee you that the store owner was mistaken about it being a Steen cannon. Possibly a Hern, but didn't Hern always have steel liners? I know they were welded seamed liners, but I think they cast their iron tubes around steel liners from the beginning of their production.
A few weeks ago a 1.50" cast iron swivel with a steel liner sold on eBay for $310.00.

[KABAR2]

That evilbay swivel is a bit funky 

Trunnions too far back... almost looks like they cut the back off and rebreached it.....
very strange.

[Rayfan87]

is it just me or are the trunnions on that way too high?

[GGaskill]

is it just me or are the trunnions on that way too high?

Looks like the barrel is mounted upside down.  Maybe the vent was drilled on the wrong side.

[dominick]

The swivel mount is not removable.  Looks like it was built that way.

[Cannoneer]

OK, so you've noticed some minor flaws in the design of this swivel gun, but there were also other pics that show some other blemishes on this barrel. The cascabel, which is just a hollow cone meant to hold the tiller seems like it was added on after the tube was cast, and it's not perpendicular to the breech face, it's on a crooked angle. In a close up pic of the surface of the tube it appears to be wavy not smooth (this can be seen a little in the last pic on the underside of the tube in front of the reinforce).
Seriously, it's not what can be seen that really bothers me about this cannon (that's only a warning sign), it's what can't be seen that's scary. If the maker of this 'murderer' has the exterior looking like this, I would think one would be wise to wonder what the liner is made from, and how the breech plug is attached. All I know is that I would never stand behind this gun holding the tiller in one hand, while firing the gun with a linstock held in the other. 

[Rickk]

<-----   Look over to the left... That is a 2 -1/4" Hern Carronade barrel. 

It only comes one way... with a liner, and with the hoisting loop. Of course, the loop could be cut off. There should be some sign of it having been there I would think.

It also weighs several hundred pounds... it would be pretty heavy to uses as a swivel gun for sure!

[gulfcoastblackpowder]

You could use the 5/8 scale Hern carronade as a swivel gun, but it would also have the loop and the liner.  They also have the full scale English swivel gun, which also only comes lined, but doesn't have the cascabel loop.

They also do manufacture a solid cast swivel gun, but it's 1/4 scale and a total weight of 30lbs, so if you drilled it out, it would be quite a bit smaller than either of these, though that would explain the lack of a steel liner.

http://www.hernironworks.com/cannons.html

I don't think the barrel described is probably a Hern, because it doesn't really fit with their product line.  Take a look at their site, though, and see if there's something close.

[KABAR2]

The ebay swivel has me thinking that this may have been a cast cannon that had a ruptured/damaged
breach it was cut back and rebreached this would be a good reason for the trunnions being so far back, add to that the discription of the hollow casable being poorly added ....... I have a feeling this
may be the case.

[Co. Batguano]

Nope.  Definitely no cascabel loop.  And the breech area wasn't as fat as a Hern carronade gun either.  there was definitely a flat area near the touch hole.  It's not smooth and polished enough for a South Bend or Steen gun either.  Anyone else out there making guns commercially that might fit the bill?  I'm thinking that all the accessories are probably worth around $800-1000 or so, and with no delivery charge (shipping on this stuff can really run in to some money) it still might be a deal.

Thoughts?

[rampa room artillery]

not a deal at all,  i think you can find a gun builder here on the board that can build you the same thing but better out of turned steel for the same price.

rick bryan

[Cannoneer]

A couple of considerations other than worth/cost (which is very difficult to estimate without being able to even view the piece) are finding out if the barrel is lined, and deciding if you'd still be interested in buying it if it doesn't have a steel liner. Ask the seller if you can sand a small section of the muzzle face near the bore to see if is equiped with a liner; you can repaint where you sanded. If he says no and you're going to take a chance buying it without knowing, then be prepared to pay to have a proper liner with breech plug installed (it will then also need a vent liner installed), and also realize that some of the accoutrements that you'll be getting will then be useless for this barrel (the ball mould).