Author Topic: Not what I planned... (Read 1380 times)

geezerbiker · « **on:** June 01, 2011, 03:19:34 PM »

A friend of mine decided that since my illness I've been cooped up for too long. He came by took me out to lunch then we visited a few gun shops. I don't know when gun shops started putting out bar stools but, thank Got they were there...

Anyway at the first shop, I was sitting there BSing M1911A1's with one guy when my buddy came over and said, "you've got to see this." I hobbled over to see a used .44 mag Handi Rifle for 200 bucks. Since I had money down on a bolt gun, I felt it was more than I could swing this week. so I made an offer and left my phone number.

After all y'all's glowing reports of the .45-70, I was 100% convinced that I was going to send my ultra-varmint frame in to have a .45-70 barrel fitted.

Anyway at the next gun shop and about 25 miles away, I got a call on my cell saying they'd take the $175 I offered. So tomorrow I pick up a .44 mag carbine with iron sights and a black plastic stock... So how'd I do?

Tony

Steve Gold · « **Reply #1 on:** June 01, 2011, 03:32:07 PM »

You did good. 44 and 45-70 are very popular on this board.

I chose 44 coz it used less powder and more importantly in these lead starved times a lot less lead.

Jus sayin not trying to start a war wiv the 45-70 fans

Steve

geezerbiker · « **Reply #2 on:** June 01, 2011, 04:19:24 PM »

Odds are since I only plan to shoot cast slugs in it, the .45-70 would have been overkill.

I told my wife a couple months ago that when I got a couple .430" bullet molds for 12 bucks each that the universe was telling me to buy a .44 carbine. She didn't buy that at all. I suspect I'll leave this one behind the seat of my truck for a few days and quietly transfer it to my safe...

Tony

Steve Gold · « **Reply #3 on:** June 01, 2011, 04:56:14 PM »

My wife to be is ok with me shooting from the front porch, and well pleased that I can recover all the lead that I shoot in the yard. What with the rising cost and impossibility of scrounging lead these day.

I have been using 50/50 mix of wheel weight and soft lead, a bit soft by some peoples reckoning but if .001" oversize to your bore and with good lube I have had no problems with leading of the bore.

All the best

Steve

keith44 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 02, 2011, 02:43:44 AM »

Geezerbiker, don't worry 'bout startin' a war over .44 vs .45-70. Anybody that's shot both knows the overlap, and the differences. I still have both, and use them in similar situations. But for really heavy or tough game gimme that .45-70 with the heavier bullet.

Enjoy the .44 mine has taken many paper and tin can targets as well as a couple deer.

Shu · « **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2011, 02:49:55 AM »

The 44 45-70 war is on!!!

There is nothing wrong with the 44 mag. It would probably cover 99% of all hunters needs.
Unless you are in one of those areas where 300 + yard shots are all you get. The 45-70 wouldn't be the gun for that either.

You bought a Handi, are set up to cast and reload. The only thing better would be to hit the lottery for a few mil.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 02, 2011, 06:00:16 AM »

Steve, you might try just the well smelted and cleaned WWt. for your next casting and see how they compare. A smidge of tin helps the castability, but it has been working nicely for a bunch of us (given you have the right bullet dia. for your bore, which it sounds like you do). If it works you get to save that 'valuable' soft lead for when it is truely needed.

BBF · « **Reply #7 on:** June 02, 2011, 06:29:07 AM »

Quote from: geezerbiker on June 01, 2011, 04:19:24 PM

.................

................. She didn't buy that at all. I suspect I'll leave this one behind the seat of my truck for a few days and quietly transfer it to my safe...

Tony

Strange isn't it, wives in general just don't see the merit in your thinking.

BTW I predict you are going to get caught one of these days. Wives have a real fine "sniffer" for unauthorized purchases! I hope you got some dirt on her.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #8 on:** June 02, 2011, 07:22:12 AM »

Actually I think I made some points with my Ol' Lady this morning. Awhile back I bought a .22 semi-auto rifle for her. Shortly afterward I hinted about buying a rifle for her and she nixed the idea but I already had it... So I refinished the stock and glass bedded it.

Anyway it's a pretty nice little rifle. I told her this morning that I was going to piss her off and gave it to her. Much to my surprise, she loved it. I need to take her shooting and introduce her to center-fire rifles and cast bullet loads. Who knows, maybe I can convert her to my cause...

Tony

gcrank1 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 02, 2011, 07:35:50 AM »

Good for you! My wife loves playin' guns, and is a pretty fine shot. Downside is she bought a couple 'out from under me' (and didnt dicker near as good as she could have), but I get to play with them anytime I want

.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #10 on:** June 02, 2011, 10:22:05 AM »

I picked it up this morning and it's better than I originally thought. It's like new and came with the original box and paperwork. I don't think it's had more than a box or 2 of ammo put through it...

Hopefully I can get out shooting the middle of next week (weather and strength permitting...)

Tony

Steve Gold · « **Reply #11 on:** June 02, 2011, 01:30:35 PM »

One of the reasons I use the 50/50 wheel weight / lead is to make my stash of wheel weights last twice as long. They are a finite resource due to legislation, another year or two and there will be no more. Then it might be 3/4 , 3/5 mix just to make em last.

I have no hardness tester other than my thumb nail, but 50/50 "seems" quite hard.

Steve

geezerbiker · « **Reply #12 on:** June 02, 2011, 04:03:33 PM »

I've been hording lead and wheel weights for years. I wouldn't say I have a lot but I have enough that I'm not worried. I also have a lead ballast plate off a fork lift. I plan to chop that up and melt it down sometime later this year. I have some of pure tin bars that I can use to temper the mix. I'd really like to find a way to melt it all together so that I can have one mix to use.

Anyway I'll probably shoot off the shelf bullets/ammo for a while. My business is seriously busy this time of year and I want to shoot the new rifle before Autumn...

Tony

goofyoldfart · « **Reply #13 on:** June 03, 2011, 01:29:30 AM »

To all you fine MARRIED men (and those with Serious girlfriends and fiance's) : REMEMBER-- when dealing with them--- It's not just "GUNS" ---------------------- It's GUNS & ROSES. And I'm not just speelin' the song or band. Ya"ll got two hands--fill 'em both. one a gun, the other ROSES!!!!!!!!!:))
God Bless to you and all of yours.

GOF < aka Goofyoldfart>

keith44 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 03, 2011, 02:31:23 AM »

funny part of that, goofyoldfart, is my wife would rather have a new gun instead of the roses

geezerbiker · « **Reply #15 on:** June 03, 2011, 05:37:43 AM »

I dropped 400 bucks on mother's day for a new car stereo for my wife. I do remember the roses but also the other goodies...

I had a talk with my lady last night and reminded her that I would never spend more than we could afford or even miss on gun stuff (while not admitting 2 new guns came into the house over 2 days.) She says she knows that I trusts me to spend responsibly. The problem is that I'm paying for the sins of her ex that was a total deadbeat. That guy would spend all he earned on toys and some of what she bought in. Anyway Shes also a million % better than my ex... It's going to be a long while before she knows about the .44 carbine.

On another note, it's a good thing I bought 2 extra hammers for the lock time experiment. The .44 has a pretty good trigger but why not make it better?

Tony

BBF · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2011, 06:14:11 AM »

Hey geezerbiker

Wives have a looong memory for asking to trust and finding out.......................they got took

Catshooter45 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2011, 09:06:10 AM »

Steve,

The 50/50 mix is a good way to spread out your WWs. I do the same thing. I'll even go 4 to 1 (pure/WW). Hardness isn't nearly as important as we used to think. Alot of writers over the years have told us that "hardcast" is the only way to prevent leading.

Well, with the internet some of us have learned different. Go here:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php if you care to learn more. I've been casting more than 40 years and I learned more in my five years on that board than in the 40.

You're dead right on the .001 over. Fit is King, and the bigger the better. I shoot in a lot of different .45s and their bores range from .4501 to .4578. I can shoot .458 in all of 'em and it works well, accurate and zero leading.

geezerbiker,

I read a post on the above web site that might help you with your smelting problem.

Guy had lots of tin and pure that he wanted to alloy. Only way for him to melt was his 10 pound Lee and he had about 100 pounds of materials. So, he did his best to keep each batch as close to the same as he could and melted it all out, being very careful to mark each batch (10 ingots from each batch). Then, he took one ingot from each batch and melted them together when he wanted to cast. That gave him an alloy that was the same, each time he cast.

HOpe this helps.

Cat

geezerbiker · « **Reply #18 on:** June 07, 2011, 08:30:55 PM »

I slugged the bore tonight and it came out to .432". I have to say that I'm disappointed and if I cannot get it to shoot properly with cast bullets, I'll be even more disappointed.

Right now I'm pretty sure that this will be my last Handi rifle. It's a real shame with Remington as a parent company that they cannot keep their barrels closer to being in spec...

I plan to go to shooting soon and I'll put a box or 2 of factory loads through it and then decide if it's a keeper...

Tony

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** June 07, 2011, 08:38:22 PM »

That's within the SAAMI spec for 44mag rifle barrels which isn't the same for pistols.

Tim

Quote from: Gunsmith 01 on April 27, 2007, 03:13:07 AM

OK folks let's get this straight on the "oversize bore" issue. The Sporting Arms and Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI)uses two different bore specs. for 44 magnum rifles and pistols. They are as follows:

Rifle:
Bore- .424 +/- .001
Groove- .431 +/- .001

Pistol:
Bore- .417 +/- .001
Groove- .429 +/- .001

You may not like it but Marlin is following the standards set for the industry so I don't believe that they have to admit to any fault here. The only disagreement I have is on rate of twist. I would like to see 1/20 on rifles but again SAAMI says it should be 1/38.
Now, why are some tighter than others. They probably start with rifling broaches at the max of .432. As they wear, they can be resharpened several times before they get to the min. of .430 and throw away a 1200-1500 tool. So you see where the variation occurs. Just ask for a barrel at the end of the tool life.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:32:34 AM »

Dont be bummed!
The virtue of cast bullets is not just way cheaper than those with coats, its that YOU get to use the one(s) that actually fit your throat and barrel. The guys back 'in Pope's' day were getting great groups with home cast bullets in non-SAAMI bores, the standardization only made it a bit easier for us. The biggest mistake Ive seen guys do when using cast bullets is to use those too small, they see that the jacketed is, say, 429, so they size a lead bullet to that and wonder (usually) why it wont group. That hard jacket can hang onto a slim thou' of rifling and still get enough spin to stabilize. A lead bullet will likely slip it, and the gas from behind will be cutting up the base like a blow-torch into the grooves and down the sides.
Now, a soft lead bullet may 'bump up' to groove dia. real quick, and seal it off before the cutting. A WWt. or harder needs to be groove dia. (to .001 over) depending on what the throat in the chamber allows you to use. That is the ideal, even larger dia. is OK because it will swage down to bore size once it gets there., it needs to fit the critical throat dimension. If you want more of an authority, ask C.E. Harris and/or join The Cast Bullet Assoc. and/or see the Cast Bullet Forum here on GBO. I didnt invent this wheel, but I did re-invent some of it, at no little time, expense and frustration, so I know it works. Since following this methodology I have minimized the frustration curve and have got all mine to successfully shoot lead.
FWIW, the quickest and easiest start is a Lee mould (get a dbl. cav.), Lee Liquid ALOX tumble lube (or pan lube of your own) and something like Unique, though Im loving Trail Boss now.
Cast and see if an as cast bullet fits into the fully fire formed case mouth. If so, dont resize those cases, they will be too small (actually sized for jacketed 'undersize' bullets), and if you press the right size bullet into an undersize case it aint a good thing.
Decap, recap, charge and put a tumble lubed bullet in; what could be easier. Dollars to donuts it will go where its pointed. If not, somebody here will buy that rifle and they will make it work if you dont want to mess with it!
What could be better?

geezerbiker · « **Reply #21 on:** June 08, 2011, 06:44:51 AM »

I'll have to see what size bullets I can cast. I decided I didn't like the 2 .429 molds I had and I put them both on eBay and ordered different molds. It would be nice if we could get the SAAMI to get there act together for .44 mag carbines.

It's supposed to be that the revolver and carbine shoot the same ammo. The bore size and rifling twist rate should be the same...

I'll follow up on how it shoots in a few days...

Tony

keith44 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 08, 2011, 07:12:55 AM »

Remember also that the alloy hardness (what the actual alloy is made of to give it the hardness) will have some bearing on the "as cast size" of the bullet. Pure lead (dead soft) will usually be the largest (shrink the least as it cools) and alloys with antimony and tin will shrink more and weigh slightly less. You do not need the hardest bullet you can find, just one that is hard enough. Too hard and it will not obturate and finish filling the grooves. This also leads to hot gas blow torch effect. and will lead the barrel.