Author Topic: Mortar's @ a local cemetery (Read 1467 times)

rustychips · « **on:** May 06, 2011, 05:07:04 PM »

In the city of Danville IL there is a old cemetery and they have a soldiers memorial with a really tall statue and there are four equally spaced mortars that point outwards, the neat thing is all four are the same type (which I have no idea what they are) but they are all a little bit different, the square holes on the rounded part of the barrel which I assume was to lever the barrel up and down is most prominent difference, some have eight holes and others only have three, some have two vent holes and some have two with deep pocket like maybe priming powder was laid there? The one in the picture has like gear teeth cut into the trunnion while the other three don't. the one in the picture uses a tapered key to hold the cap-square closed and the other three use nuts and bolts. Of course I didn't have any thing to measure with so I don't have any critical dimensions to add, all I know is they are neat looking and just might have to be scaled down to say 1/4 scale.

David
West Central Indiana

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2011, 06:35:16 PM »

Well David, if they had looked like the one below, they would have been 8 or 10 inch 1840 Siege Mortars like several we found in downtown Providence, Rhode Island. They were Confederate guns cast by the Tredegar.

But, of course they don't, so they aren't those we mentioned above. They do look like this one we saw at Ft Independence in Boston Harbor, so they must be 1861 Siege mortars of the 8 or 10 inch persuasion. Looks like 10" to us based on the relative size of the trunnion compared to the known length of the wrought iron bed's cheek bottom.

David, you lucky guy, you! If you will click on your second photo in the stack to bump it up in size, you will see clearly that you found the very first production 10" Seige Mortar of the Pattern 1861 series to be cast, S.N. 1. It was cast in Boston, Mass. in 1862 by the Cyrus Alger Foundry( C. A. & Co.) and it weighed 1,960 Lbs. Wow, a famous Ordnance Inspector too! This piece was inspected and approved by none other than, T.J.R., Thomas Jackson Rodman. Way to go!

Tracy and Mike

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2011, 06:49:34 PM »

rustychips (David) -

WELCOME to the board! GOOD PIX! Thanks.

Where in Danville? It's on my way when I drive through to S.D. for prarie dog hunting at the end of the month.

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2011, 12:51:21 PM »

one is an 8 and one is a 10 inch, the 8 inch only has 3 elevating notches in the breach of the. thats the one i want.

rustychips · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2011, 01:17:29 PM »

Cat Whisperer, the cemetery is on Voorhees Street, I take it you would be heading west on I-74 if so take the Bowman Ave exit and go north about 5 stop lights to Voorhees St take a left and go about 1.5 miles and it is on the left it is called Springhill Cemetery, fairly easy to get to.

David

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2011, 04:58:13 PM »

Thanks! If the timing is right when we drive through I'll take a few pix.

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2011, 02:51:12 PM »

now that i have had some time to study the pics, more details jump out at me, that dont seem to be right. tim, when you go by please get some good pics. these might be experimental models. they dont match any other mortars i have seen. in some of there details.

thanks rick bryan

rustychips · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2011, 07:36:59 PM »

Her are a few more pics of the Serial #1 CA & Co.

rustychips · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2011, 07:46:45 PM »

This one is CA & Co. No. 17 dated 1863

Cannoneer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2011, 09:35:13 PM »

rustychips,
There are four M1861 10-inch mortars located at Spring Hill Cemetery according to the "National Registry of Known Surviving Civil War Artillery." Two made by Cyrus Alger & Co., Army Registry numbers 1 and 17, (is that no.1 that has the three elevating sockets?) and two others: Fort Pitt Foundry, Army Registry no. 34, foundry no. 1620, weight 1940, cast 1863, and Seyfert, McManus & Co., Army Registry no. 39, foundry no. 368, weight 1959, cast 1865.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2011, 03:18:15 PM »

Let me introduce Jim Bender... keeper of that "National Registry". He won the Coehorn class at Grayling in 2008 when these were taken.

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2011, 05:34:04 PM »

I like it an 8 inch mortar.. and a 12 lb tredeger made by jamie west if i had to put money on it. at least the handles look like his. but the mortar bed is not his. he doesnt use slats of wood as that one appears to be made of.
silver prices are on their way back up and i am getting closer to getting my 8 incher soon. I hope to have it ready for our shoot in pulaski or where ever you guys are holding it. if not I will bring my 24lb and my mountain rifle. I cant wait. me an va rifleman are getting ready to kick some butt.

rick bryan

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2011, 05:45:25 PM »

I asked Jim about the wood platform and he referred me to several pictures in the reference books showing mortars and they were usually shot while sittling on a platform... there's even plans out there for the platforms... Boy the logistical support of having and shooting one of these is LARGE.

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2011, 06:47:36 PM »

You will find all the AOP plans for mortars include drawings of the platform.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:09:49 PM »

Quote from: gunsonwheels on May 09, 2011, 03:18:15 PM

Let me introduce Jim Bender...

Thanks gunsonwheels, there goes another one of my fondly held delusions; I pictured Jim Bender as a contemporary William T. Sherman with a steel gaze, gallantly carrying on with the work that Wayne Stark began and amassed, and here it turns out he looks like a kid.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:25:18 PM »

I asked him how on earth he gets around with all that iron... He has a trailer he pulls with a engine hoist mounted at the front and has an overall shape like a boat slip with the wheels extending out from the two ramps on either side of the slip. He backs the trailer so the ramps are on either side of the mortar with it in the slip, hoists it up and while suspended slides the platform into the slip on ledges designed to receive it, lowers the mortar onto the supported platform, secures the whole load and is ready to travel. Deploying it to shoot is just the reverse procedure. I don't remember what he said his total weight going down the road was but I remember it was a LOT... a WHOLE LOT

rampa room artillery... are you absolutely sure you want to do an 8".
Jim pulls it with a 1/2 ton pickup which holds the coehorn, powder and 8" zinc balls for projectiles for the 8"
rra... are you REALLY sure?

?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:34:11 PM »

Well, at least we know he has good taste, because he's also got a Confederate Coehorn.

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:39:22 PM »

I think Rick has truck enough for the mortar.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2011, 06:36:15 PM »

Here are half the pix I took today. 4 mortars, identified by location on the circle - SE, NE, NW, SW.

The South West Mortar:

The South East Mortar

more to come.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #19 on:** May 25, 2011, 07:04:49 PM »

Ok, thanks to rustychips and CW I think we now have good photo documentation on all four mortars.
The first eight (SW) pics Cat posted definitely show the Fort Pitt Foundry 10-inch siege mortar that weighs 1940 lbs. You can see the foundry number 1620 marked above the rimbase, and U.S. marked in front of the two vent indentations. This is one of the mortars that has three elevating sockets, the other being the Cyrus Alger & Co. registry no. 1 tube.
The next seven photos (SE) that Cat posted (I think) must show the Seyfert, McManus & Co. mortar; although I can hardly make out any of the markings on the muzzle face, through the process of elimination it seems to be from that foundry. I can't see all of them in the photo, but this tube may have eleven elevating sockets, because some of the other M1861, 10-inch tubes that came from this foundry did. This mortar also seems to have a muzzle ring, if you look closely at the pics you can make out a faint line around the front of the tube, and this mortar also has double vents, but with no indentations.

While I've admired the looks of M1861 10-inch (and 8-inch) mortars since first seeing them, I haven't really given them a lot of attention, but there appear to be some unique variations on different cast iron tubes. Other than the differing number of elevating sockets on these mortars, the most interesting feature to me are the "gear teeth" found on the trunnion face of the Cyrus Alger & Co. Army registry no.1, 1862 mortar. The only reason I can think of for the hole in the center of the trunnion face and the teeth, would be for the attachment of a lever to aid in the elevation of the tube. I wonder if this feature was dropped from the design early on, because it doesn't impress me as being necessary, and it's not found on the registry no. 17 tube.
Another surprising thing to me is the number of sockets on two of the tubes. I can understand that the reason for being able to depress the barrel to that extent would be to facilitate unloading the mortar; but what would be the purpose of being able to elevate the tube to the point where the bore axis was pointing almost straight up, could it have been to load or service the piece?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2011, 04:31:19 PM »

I have more pix. Later. Just back from PD hunting and getting ready for the 4AANRVM&CS.

John - I appreciate your analysis!