Author Topic: Department of Education sends swat team to deal with student loan default  (Read 994 times)

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Offline lakota

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They break the door down and detain the person inside...And the person who defaulted on the loan didnt even live there!

They probably should have leveled the house with an artillery barage or a cruise missle or at least shot tear gas and concussion grenades in before making entry because a person who is capable of defaulting on a student loan is capable of unspeakable acts of evil!

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Feds-Send-Swat-Team-To-Bre-by-Rob-Kall-110608-10.html?show=votes
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Offline 45-70.gov

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when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
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Offline lakota

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This guy should probably be grateful that the storm troopers demonstrated restraint and didnt shoot him 80 or 100 times.
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline dukkillr

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This guy should probably be grateful that the storm troopers demonstrated restraint and didnt shoot him 80 or 100 times.
You must be confused.  They are, without exception, great and noble individuals who are only interested in serving the public and promoting the rights and dignities of all Americans. 

Even as a joke I have a hard time writing that with a straight face.

Offline XD40SC

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This guy should probably be grateful that the storm troopers demonstrated restraint and didnt shoot him 80 or 100 times.
You must be confused.  They are, without exception, great and noble individuals who are only interested in serving the public and promoting the rights and dignities of all Americans. 

Even as a joke I have a hard time writing that with a straight face.
Seems you don't trust the police. Just wondering what field of law you are practicing and if that helped form your opinion?

Offline lakota

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***Never mind I just reread your post.***Me? I have spent 16 years inner-city Emergency Medical Service and watching police bully and rough people up with little or no cause. Watched them push one "drunk guy" around and when I was finnaly allowed to examine him guess what? Not a drunk just low blood sugar.
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Offline Mohawk

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I have been chased out of a house by a type one diabetic with a butcher knife. She did not even recognize her own son. Just saying.....

Offline yellowtail3

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I have been chased out of a house by a type one diabetic with a butcher knife. She did not even recognize her own son. Just saying.....

Just saying..... what?

Pretty low, what the Strumtruppen did to Mr. Wright. But the feds are saying it had nothing to do with a student loan collection, so kicking in the door and humiliating the man were okay. Well, okay by LEO/State standards. Perhaps we'd benefit from a few more sturmtruppen themselves getting shot when they kick in doors and point weapons at citizens. After all... if I do that, I've committed a felony and am due whatever the homeowner dishes out.

State agents are speshul, tho, right?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline wreckhog

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They got Al Capone for tax evasion. This stuff has been happening for decades.

Offline Pat/Rick

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Pretty low, what the Strumtruppen did to Mr. Wright. But the feds are saying it had nothing to do with a student loan collection, so kicking in the door and humiliating the man were okay. Well, okay by LEO/State standards. Perhaps we'd benefit from a few more sturmtruppen themselves getting shot when they kick in doors and point weapons at citizens. After all... if I do that, I've committed a felony and am due whatever the homeowner dishes out.

State agents are speshul, tho, right?
I'm waiting for that to happen, WHEN are people going to "Have had enough"?  If ya commit a felony, ya don't get your SS checks.  Whats the saying? "Those who trade their freedom for security........."
All we need now are more unConstitutional agencies forming their own police(?) forces.

Who cares if its unConstitutional, the law is the law!!  Good luck America.

Offline billy_56081

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I think there is a rest of the story here. No not a student loan default, maybe a huge amount of fraud involving federal grant money?
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline BBF

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If you are going to use those words lets spell them right.
 
 It is   S t u r m t r u p p en   or you could abbreviate it correctly as SA.
 
Even the Empire in Star Wars had 'em.
 
However if you want to change it a bit you can try KGB for some variety. They were around a lot longer.
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Offline lakota

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I think there is a rest of the story here. No not a student loan default, maybe a huge amount of fraud involving federal grant money?

Even still...shouldnt they have done a little actual police work to confirm that the wanted person indeed was residing at the address before they busted the door down? Why does it seem that they always go to the busting the door down option before trying less invasive approaches?
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline billy_56081

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Being the "facts" shown in this story have already started out as wrong. I'll wait for the rest of the story.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline yellowtail3

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If you are going to use those words lets spell them right.
 
 It is   S t u r m t r u p p en   or you could abbreviate it correctly as SA.

Awright - I transpose a couple letter, an' I get to meet the board spelling cop!
Very well: S T U R M T R U P P E N. Better, now?
No need for KGB; plain 'ol stormtrooper thug does just fine. I'm talking about those guys who take home gov't paycheck to kick in doors and point weapons at people, and generally act in ways that would get a plain old citizen - subject? - killed or imprisoned. Sometimes they kill people who shouldn't be killed; more often just humiliate and terrorize, with near-impunity. It's almost enough to make one think Rev. Wright was right, if those guys represent America (and they think they do)

I heard someone say that those jackboots are a good argument for keeping a long gun handy, one with a large magazine stoked with FMJ.

Me? I think we've got waaaay too much 'SWAT' these days, and worse... people are accepting it as normal.

"We're from the gov't, an' we're here to help!"
Neato gear, boys - and it's gotta be more fun than runnin' the speedtrap, right?



Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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This is worse than I thought.

When I searched for other instances of dept of Ed office of inspector general raids I found that health and human services has a similar police department that also conducts raids. The link below includes video related to the raids.

I realize that sometimes raids are necessary, although they are greatly abused today, but why is there such duplication? How many federal police agencies are there? I wonder if anybody knows.

http://oig.hhs.gov/newsroom/video/index.asp

Here's the dept of Ed doc about the California raid...
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/oigstatement.pdf

Offline tallyho

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Here's an article about the DoE swat raid and other Inspector Generals with armed agents:
http://reason.com/blog/weekly/2011-06-05#article_149951

And here's a paragraph from that article:
And for those asking "What the heck is the Department of Education doing executing search warrants," the better question is: How many of the 30 or so presidentially appointed inspectors general in the federal government actively take advantage of the full police power they were granted by the Homeland Security Act of 2002? By law, the Deptartment of Labor, the Export-Import Bank of the United States, the Tennessee Valley Authority and two dozen other federal agencies with OIGs can send a dozen armed agents to kick down your door.

Conan asked a valid question. "How many federal police agencies are there? I wonder if anybody knows"
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Offline WylieKy

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I call BS.  I worked for DOE and several of it's GSE's (SLMA, GRC, USA Group, etc...) for 12 years and primarily with defaulted loans (some as old as 50 years from the original National Defense Student Loan Program).  I worked with all types of loans from NDSL, Perkins, Pell recalls, tuition accounts, GSL, SLS, Stafford, Nursing, HPSL, etc...  This is NOT part of the default process.  Default is a non-criminal action, like not paying your credit card bills.  IF there was a search warrant from DOE, it would have been related to a fraud accusation, not nonpayment. 
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline tallyho

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I call BS.  I worked for DOE and several of it's GSE's (SLMA, GRC, USA Group, etc...) for 12 years and primarily with defaulted loans (some as old as 50 years from the original National Defense Student Loan Program).  I worked with all types of loans from NDSL, Perkins, Pell recalls, tuition accounts, GSL, SLS, Stafford, Nursing, HPSL, etc...  This is NOT part of the default process.  Default is a non-criminal action, like not paying your credit card bills.  IF there was a search warrant from DOE, it would have been related to a fraud accusation, not nonpayment.

You worked for the DoE, before or after the Homeland Security Act?

And the question remains, how come the response, in a possible fraud case, was a full-blown swat raid on a house where the suspect doesn't even live? This is what fraud investigation looks like now?  :o The homeowner tries to open the door, the armed and armored DoE heros bust it open before he can, handcuff the guy and terrorize him and his kids for hours in response to a possible fraud case... man the government sure needs our money bad! (Maybe they could cut down on the spending before they quit pretending they're not just

Can't wait until IRS starts feeling left out of the bust down the door swat game and starts doing "kinetic audits" (I made that up but give the IRS permission to use it) on taxpayers!
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Offline WylieKy

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Fraud is bad.  This all seems perfectly reasonable to me.  And I left DoE less than a year ago.  They were executing a search warrant, and maybe some of our LEO's can chime in, but I think it's SOP to isolate the residents of the premises and come in with a show of force.  What do you want our police to do, whisper politely though the mail slot while they have a shredding/flushing party in the back?  If you look at the bottom of the story, it has already been retracted for being inaccurate.  I called BS and I was right.
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline yellowtail3

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They were executing a search warrant, and maybe some of our LEO's can chime in, but I think it's SOP to isolate the residents of the premises and come in with a show of force.

Show of force... well.

Some shows of force end up killing citizens, not just humiliating and terrorizing them.

what can be done to discourage such thuggery?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline tallyho

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  What do you want our police to do, whisper politely though the mail slot while they have a shredding/flushing party in the back? 

Nope. What I want them to do is investigate before unleashing a swat team. How hard is it to find out if the suspect is home... or even lives there? How hard is it to watch the house for awhile and see if and when the suspect leaves... or the dad and kids leave before smashing in the door?

If you look at the bottom of the story, it has already been retracted for being inaccurate.  I called BS and I was right.

If you look at the link near the bottom of the story you will see that the inaccuracy was that the raid on the house was NOT because of a missed payment on the student loan as was first reported, but part of an ongoing investigation - and that it was originally reported that it was not a local SWAT that did the deed, but a team from OIG.

So you called BS on the fact that they don't excecute search warrants and bust down doors for default loan payments... knowing that is a relief. However, how come they bust down doors for a fraud investigation. And please, don't play the "They might be destroying evidence." card.

Isn't it SOP to actually investigate where evidence might actually be? Or even if there is any evidence.

I'm an old coot, and I have distinct memories of SOP being to knock on (not KNOCK DOWN!) a door, show a warrant, and ask for information about the particular investigation. Do you suppose today's citizen generation is so much like Spiderman, or some other super-hero that they can, with unbelievable speed, shred and flush in the back while the cops/agents are still in the doorway executing a warrant.

Hell, they didn't even wait for the guy who told them he was going to open his front door. If they really were executing a warrant, how can you possibly think that he, barely awake, in his underwear was gonna stop an armed team from coming in anyway. Or do you just believe that SOP for today's agents and cops is they gotta bust down doors,  because they are slower, denser and more fearful than in years past, and have to act with shock and awe, isolate those dangerous super residents, and come in with a show of force in cases like this?

Yeah, fraud is "bad" as you say. So does that mean busting down doors and terrorizing citizens is "good"? Maybe in some peoples minds, but not in mine!

What defenders of this kind of action actually get in return is a growing lack of respect for government agents and LEOs. Is this what you want... 'cause that's what your getting.

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Offline BBF

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All these occurences make me think a very secure metal door and frame would be in order.
 
YT
 Not spelling cop. I get a bit torqued when I read that regularly occuring 3rd Reich stuff. It shows how well the indoctrination is working.
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Offline lakota

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Maybe they should have tac teams issue traffic tickets. They could rip the door of off your car and gas you before asking for your drivers license and proof of insurance. It would have to be safer for the officers and the public at large. I mean if you are capable of speeding then you are capable of student loan fraud or murdering someones grandma and stealing her support stockings money.
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Lakota:

Current practice isn't that much different that what you describe. I got pulled over at a speed trap not long ago and one of the cops had his pistol aimed at the back of my head. I didn't appreciate that at all. I didn't get a ticket, but I did get a new perspective on how things work.

Offline yellowtail3

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YT
 Not spelling cop. I get a bit torqued when I read that regularly occuring 3rd Reich stuff. It shows how well the indoctrination is working.

what should really torque you off, is that what some citizens suffer without redress, and that it goes unchallenged. Repeatedly. So while the jackboots & strumtruppen ref might be a little gauche to some, it's also apt.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline lakota

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Lakota:

Current practice isn't that much different that what you describe. I got pulled over at a speed trap not long ago and one of the cops had his pistol aimed at the back of my head. I didn't appreciate that at all. I didn't get a ticket, but I did get a new perspective on how things work.

I got that treatment 15 years ago for leaving my car run in my then girlfriend's driveway. They pointed their guns at me and then detained me for an hour because I had an unloaded handgun locked in a case in the car per state law. I attempted to file a complaint with their department and was told by the lieutentant that he would not hear my complaint and that his officers dont respond to those types of allegations. Above the law I guess.
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Lakota:

I traveled by motorcycle long ago. Always clean cut and polite. The pigs hassled me from coast to coast and border to border just for being where I was. The old cliche about familiarity breeding contempt didn't get to be a cliche for nothing.


Offline BUGEYE

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non-violent crimes do not warrent use of force.
swat teams are little boys playing with dangerous toys.
I was watching dallas swat on tv and they couldn't stop a hijacked truck with all their fancy equipment. they chased him around for an hour or so until the texas state troopers got enough.
they passed the swat team and opened fire on the truck and shot it to pieces.
look at columbine and Va tech, they hid in the bushes while kids were dying.
here in atlanta they were trying to find a bad guy by doing their stomp-march up and down the middle of the street.  what phoneys!!
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