The cult of Robert E. Lee

[ironfoot]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dispelling_the_myth_of_robert_e_lee/2011/04/25/AFrXC1kE_story.html?nav=emailpage

I sent the link to a friend of mine who is from the South and had ancestors fight for the Confederacy.
He is a Lee admirer.
Here is his response:

Not sure where to begin to respond to this. Lee was born into poverty (gentile) due to his profligate father ,Henry “Light Horse Harry” Lee, of Revolutionary War fame. His mother owned no slaves. Lee would have been surrounded by a culture of slavery, obviously. Lee’s wife, Mary Custis, was a direct descendent of George Washington and her father squandered a fortune. Once when he was middle aged Lee was summoned home on an emergency leave to deal with the near bankruptcy of Arlington. Lee was forced to keep those slaves his wife inherited from her father in order to avoid total financial ruin. The historical record is very clear that Lee personally detested having to deal with slaves. He hated the institution. Lee did not support the secession politicians. He detested them and the record is clear about that. I’m not sure what Mr. Cohen would do if his family and country was invaded by an enemy  intent on destroying them. I am 100% convinced that Lee became a Confederate officer out of grim necessity due to cultural forces 100% beyond his control. Mr. Cohen conveniently forgets that the machinery of slave importation was almost 100% Northern state’s controlled. He also conveniently forgets that Lincoln was adamant early in the War that it was about preserving the Union, NOT about freeing slaves. It was only late in the War (1863) that Lincoln made the War about slavery. I am not a worshipper of Lee. I think I told you about my revulsion when I entered Lee Chapel at Washington and Lee University and saw that it is, indeed, a place of Lee worship. That sickened me and I am sure it would sicken Lee. However, Cohen’s piece is a hack job and hardly worthy of my taking my time right now to respond to it. He compares Lee to Rommel. Good comparison. Rommel tried to kill Hitler. Lee only violated one direct order in his military career in April, 1865 when he refused Jefferson Davis’ order not to surrender  to Grant, but to scatter the Army of Northern Virginia and continue the War as a guerilla war much like what happened in Missouri. That is about equal on the moral scales, in my opinion, to Rommel’s attempt on Hitler’s life. Good grief, what a crappy editorial! Thanks for forwarding it, however.

[williamlayton]

Like divorce, it is a complex issue with complex turns and contradictions.
NO MAN is without contradiction.
I admire lee for making a decision and sticking to it--he thought tru the issue and made a determination.
I would have pointed out some things he did not consider if he had asked me.
Lee could have won the war early--if things had gone in his favor-- so he is not without fault. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing.
I don't know of many who place lee on a pedistal and call him perfect---but There are a few who would almost worship him. I don't think he would appreciate this.
It is what it is.
Blessings

[AtlLaw]

Good grief, what a crappy editorial!

Couldn't have said it better myself...

[subdjoe]

Just another revisionist who screams "Slavery!" and proceeds to demonize and vilify the southern states, thinking that that was the whole of southern culture and society.


Funny how no one ever vilifies the old money northerners whose families made their fortunes in the slave trade - even building and outfitting slavers into the 1860s, this after importation of slaves from Africa was banned in 1808. (wonder where all those New Englanders were selling their human cargos if importation was banned?) Nope - slavery only existed in the South.  And no one outside of the South made even a cent because of the slave trade.  That is why so many northern shipyards built ships for the slave trade, and northern distillers produced tuns of rum for the slave trade, they wanted to make the South rich. 

Yep...slavery only existed in the south between 1861 and 1865 if you believe people like Cohen.  And not one half-cent went to anyone in the north from the slave trade.

[Savage_99]

I agree with Cohen.  It's much of what I wrote here a while back.

The war was started by the South to keep slaves.  While they had neat uniforms they lost the war.  Part of the reason they lost was that Lee and others like him were not as good as those who won.

Seems there is no end to this down South.  A friend who moved down there said that if you don't go along with the South was right drivel you will not be accepted there.

Too bad.

[us920669]

Most of what appears on the Post editorial page is driven by a political agenda.  A senate seat is open in Virginia in '12 and anything rehashing the Lost Cause, especially a scurrilous attack on one of its most honorable figures, will put the republican in a very difficult position (another version of the old race card).   Cohen is a predictably obnoxious left-liberal voice.

It might be helpful to consider what Lee did with his life after the war.  He lent the prestige of his name to higher education, and it is not surprising that he is venerated to this day at Washington & Lee University.  Some of his associates grew quite wealthy as the figurehead presidents of business ventures operating in the south, and one confederate "general" even organized a lottery.  Lee. however, worked for practically nothing contributing to the long-term betterment of his state and his nation. 

[DannyD]

Hi,  I'm part of the Gen. Robert E. Lee cult.  He is the greatest military leader we have produced in Virginia.  I don't care what the war started over there is one simple fact.  The army of the north came south murdered, robbed and ran away when they came against the ANV.  I love the bumper sticker "these colors don't run" the person who wrote that missed most of his history class's.



Also,  Please remember this the best Yankee's live at 401 National Ave.  Winchester Virginia 22601  "Google it"


 

[Swampman]

Dumbest stuff ever.........

[Brewster]

Lee was the rock star of his day.  Won lotta battles at enormous cost to both sides but couldn't win the war.  The losses inflicted by Lee's soldiers hardened the hearts of the Union (to this day) and assured the brutal treatment of the south by Sherman.  You won't find too many northerners who give a rat's behind about the suffering of Georgia and South Carolina in Sherman's wake.

[Swampman]

It's tough to find a yankee that knows anything or cares anything about the Civil War.  They let Grant's tomb fall to pieces.

[williamlayton]

Opinions vary and like Cohen's thought this other gentleman made some staement with which I do not agree.
Lee was a fine General and gentleman---war changed before his very eye and he was not prepared for it.
Blessings

[tscott]

Lee was a brilliant man, who attended the hardest school to get into and academic #1, which West Point is still both today! Interesting that Grant and Davis took the same path. While Supt. of West Point, Lee was offered command of the Union Army, by Davis...... I passed through Lee gate all my life, every day when I Was an instructor at West Point!

[williamlayton]

Brillant, no doubt.
Adaptable---I question that.
The South was unfitted for the war---without thinking and having no plan except hoping war would not happen--it seems.
Were Lee's hands tied to a defensive war by the South? If so, it surely was a war he knew he could not win. Nobody can win a war on the defense.
This idea about Lee having his hands tied has been discussed by greater minds than me. It is very clear that if his hands were not tied he made great tactical blunder in the first 6 months of the war, when he could have easily captured DC.
My personal opinion of Lee is that he was bound by lesser minds in the South. That would be very frustrating, in my opinion.
Blessings

[us920669]

Somewhere in my studies of these matters I got the impression that Davis insisted on micro-managing the War Department, as he had been a fine secretary of War.  There was, oh what's his name, the elderly gentleman in a uniform who technically commanded all Confederate forces from Richmond.  I believe he was selected primarily because he would never argue with Davis.  I'm not sure if anyone was tasked with developing a grand strategy.   

[ironfoot]

Just another revisionist who screams "Slavery!" and proceeds to demonize and vilify the southern states, thinking that that was the whole of southern culture and society.


Funny how no one ever vilifies the old money northerners whose families made their fortunes in the slave trade - even building and outfitting slavers into the 1860s, this after importation of slaves from Africa was banned in 1808. (wonder where all those New Englanders were selling their human cargos if importation was banned?) Nope - slavery only existed in the South.  And no one outside of the South made even a cent because of the slave trade.  That is why so many northern shipyards built ships for the slave trade, and northern distillers produced tuns of rum for the slave trade, they wanted to make the South rich. 

Yep...slavery only existed in the south between 1861 and 1865 if you believe people like Cohen.  And not one half-cent went to anyone in the north from the slave trade.

Funny how you claim it wasn't about slavery, then blame slavery on northerners.
It was about slavery, and some northerners were complicit.

[Swampman]

It wasn't about slavery.  Lincoln got that up to keep Europe from getting involved.  He said so himself.

[williamlayton]

It is very complex and things were said and done for specific reasons/results by both sides.
I really think that the South took on a more pro-slavery attitude than the North an anti-slavery attitude.
I keeping asking because I kept asking myownself---what the heck was the South thinking--it is obvious they had no plan.
You can view the frustration in a lot of lee's correspondences. I think he was tied to a horse that did not have a plan.
Blessings

[us920669]

At one point I had decided that Lee would have been a better president than Davis.  Best choice probably would have been Mr. Benjamin, the Jewish confederate, but in those days that would have been unthinkable. 

[Swampman]

I don't see why it would have been unthinkable.  In the 1860s the Irish were the most hated minority in America.

[ironfoot]

It wasn't about slavery.  Lincoln got that up to keep Europe from getting involved.  He said so himself.

Wrong



Lincoln's anti slavery views were well known as result of the Lincoln/Douglas debates and Lincoln's Coopers Union speech. Lincoln was elected on an anti-slavery Republican platform. Lincoln was elected President of the whole country, not just the North. The South would not abide by the results of the presidential election, and engaged in armed revolt.  The North fought to preserve the Union and representative democracy. The South fought to perpetuate it's significant investment in "property" in  the form of human slaves.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Douglas_debates_of_1858

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/cooper.htm

http://www.cprr.org/Museum/Ephemera/Republican_Platform_1860.html

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres31.html

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres32.html

http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html

http://americancivilwar.com/documents/index.html

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/gettysburg.htm

http://www.filibustercartoons.com/CSA.htm

Lincoln's last speech:

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/last.htm

"For the first time in a public setting, Lincoln expressed his support for black suffrage. This statement incensed John Wilkes Booth, a member of the audience, who vowed, "That is the last speech he will make." A white supremacist and Confederate activist, Booth made good on his threat three days later."

[AtlLaw]

In the 1860s the Irish were the most hated minority in America.

I'm glad someone else knows that!  Often characterised with ape like features; it was well known they didn't do anything but drink and have sex; and they were <gasp> Catholic!   

But I believe the few that made it out of New York assimilated better in the South then they did in the North.     (cite: Gone with the Wind Gerald O'Hara still had his brogue...  and he liked Bobby Lee!   

[Dee]

Robert E. Lee, was the best of the best at West Point, and most likely could have won the war early, had he been willing to go into D.C. when he had the chance. Why didn't he? I think Lee was more about DEFENDING HIS HOMELAND, i.e. the South and Virginia, than stomping the North. Lee was a soldier, and an American, but a lover of his home FIRST. Which is as it should be. Lee fought a DEFENSIVE WAR, in hopes, I think that the North would see their error, and withdraw, which they would not. Had he fought an OFFENSIVE WAR, the Confederate Battle Flag would still be waving proudly above my home county Court House today, and STATES RIGHTS WOULD STILL BE, THE ORDER OF THE DAY.

[littlecanoe]

Robert E. Lee, was the best of the best at West Point, and most likely could have won the war early, had he been willing to go into D.C. when he had the chance. Why didn't he? I think Lee was more about DEFENDING HIS HOMELAND, i.e. the South and Virginia, than stomping the North. Lee was a soldier, and an American, but a lover of his home FIRST. Which is as it should be. Lee fought a DEFENSIVE WAR, in hopes, I think that the North would see their error, and withdraw, which they would not. Had he fought an OFFENSIVE WAR, the Confederate Battle Flag would still be waving proudly above my home county Court House today, and STATES RIGHTS WOULD STILL BE, THE ORDER OF THE DAY.

Bullseye!!!

[ironfoot]

People with outstanding attributes often have outstanding flaws as well. Lee and his wife grew up in families where fathers squandered wealth. Lee fought in court to keep slaves in order to preserve his wealth. He fought for a cause that would also allow him to keep his property in slaves. Perhaps Lee's greatest act was when he refused Jefferson Davis’ order not to surrender  to Grant, but to scatter the Army of Northern Virginia and continue the War as a guerilla war much like what happened in Missouri. Lee refused to continue the war. Some posters here could take a lesson from that.

[GatorDude]

Robert E. Lee was a great general and a true gentleman!