Hunting with the .45ACP?

[sachel.45]

it seems that the general concensus is that a .45 with 230 grain bullet should do the job just fine assuming proper placement, distance etc. What would you guys think about a .40 s&w with a 200 grain WFNGC going 1100 FPS? or do you think with the smaller diamter bullet it would be better to go with a 200 grain nosler JHP going 1100 FPS. not meaning to hijack this thread just curious. The 200 grain ammo is made by double tap I haven't picked any up yet but will be soon. I think someone (jeff cooper?) said at least .40 cal at least a 200 grain bullet and at least 1000 FPS (I could be wrong I think I read that somewhere)

[gr8ful]

practice, practice, practice, then get close and keep your skinning knife sharp.  IDK about deer, having never had the opportunity to shoot one with my 1911, but I have shot two hogs with it, and if it will kill a 100 lb hog, it should kill a 100 lb deer.  Shot placement is what I believe in. 

[jlwilliams]

What would you guys think about a .40 s&w with a 200 grain WFNGC going 1100 FPS? or do you think with the smaller diamter bullet it would be better to go with a 200 grain nosler JHP going 1100 FPS. not meaning to hijack this thread just curious. The 200 grain ammo is made by double tap I haven't picked any up yet but will be soon. I think someone (jeff cooper?) said at least .40 cal at least a 200 grain bullet and at least 1000 FPS (I could be wrong I think I read that somewhere)

  .40 projo 180 to 200 grains at or about 1000fps is almost exactly like the old 38-40 revolver/ carbine cartridge.  Not bad.

[BRL]

Thanks Casull and Mikey!

[ole 5 hole group]

Take a look at Buffalo Bore’s 255 grain ACP load.  I learned of this round on another sight and I recently purchased a box of the lower velocity 255’s just to see how it would shoot in my 1911.  It chambers slick as a whistle.  I’m currently running an 18.5# variable rate recoil spring but might order a 22#/23#/24# spring just for this round.

I haven’t shot any of the rounds yet but the individual recommending the round is impressed with it and he’s an experienced handgun big game hunter.  I would think a 255 grain hardcast bullet at 925fps will provide all the penetration needed at any angle for deer/black bear and similar sized animals up to 50 yards and I wouldn’t hesitated to 75 yards or longer on a broadside target.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?pg=5&l=product_list&c=new

[reflex264]

I just posted pics in the Glock foum of my 21SF set up to hunt. Here is a copy and paste of it. The 185gr Nosler has proven to be very efective on deer. I have the gun set up so I can shoot .45 ACP, .45 +P+ and .45 Supers in it. The Buffalo bore 255gr Super load chronies 1130fps out of the 6" barrel. The +P+ is by far my favorite and is super accurate. Here is the post:

I figure there may be a few more here that hunt with Glocks. This is my 21SF with 6" Storm Lake barrel, 3.5 connector, Lone Wolfe trigger housing with adjustable stop, Wolfe one piece rod and spring set, Siderlockt trigger and more junk I can't think of right now. Using the 24# spring it will shoot .45 Supers just fine. My favorite is using 185gr Noslers in a +P+ load that sends them out the barrel at 1250fps. Using this load and the 19# spring it shoots 1" groups at 25 yards. I have taken a couple of deer with it and it works great. reflex264

[huntingohio]

Just a thought that i havent seen brought up...
What kinda energy is a 45 cal hawken putting out? with the hawken we have  put down litterally 100s of white tail. all ive used was a patched ball over 60-90 grains of ffg [pyrodex]
Id honestly think my 45acp would have more energy, ive shot both at phone books and the acp seemed to hit a lil harder with lgcfn230 grainers. 
 
and theres a great video on youtube where the guy hunts with a glock 21 in 45acp, wuite a few dfo [dead fell over] shots ont there

[Mohawk]

A .38 Buffalo Bore does fine on Whitetail. As does 357 Mag. What is the point to this? A .45 is FINE. Why the debate?

[docmagnum357]

I am also mystified as to why anyone would ever use load that won't reliably anchor a deer for self defense.  With that said, I do trust the 45 acp cartridge in an accurate pistol or revolver to do the job.  I have shot many thousands of the 200 grain Lee semi wadcutter and seven grains of unique, or equivelent.  I plan to use the darn thing for every ting. it does just what another poster said on small game.  Kills them, very positively. Not really a lot of torn up meat.  I also trust a hot 38 158 grain, and i would love to try a 38 wadcutter.  they are poision on small game out of my model 14.

[gstewart44]

When I intend to pig hunt I have my SW1917 stoked with the 250 LSWC Keith styles.   However I have been out on several occasions just plinking with my 200 gr LSWC target load (about 850-900 fps),  and encountered a piggie or three.   I have video of one such piggie, who came by broadside at 25 yds, and my target load punched through the ribs, both lungs and left a good blood trail the 40 yds to where he collapsed.    The 200 gr pill punched a clean hole.   the porker weighed in at 80 lbs.   

[SHOOTALL]

 I always think , deer around here are not so big . Does 90-130 . Bucks maybe up to 180 . Most deer don't reach top weight as they seldom see 2 seasons. We expect a 45 acp to stop a 300 lb felon bent on hurting us . So why the concern on a deer size critter ? Never saw a deer with a thick leather coat and vest , they are thin skinned remember.

[cwlongshot]

What would you guys think about a .40 s&w with a 200 grain WFNGC going 1100 FPS? or do you think with the smaller diamter bullet it would be better to go with a 200 grain nosler JHP going 1100 FPS. not meaning to hijack this thread just curious. The 200 grain ammo is made by double tap I haven't picked any up yet but will be soon. I think someone (jeff cooper?) said at least .40 cal at least a 200 grain bullet and at least 1000 FPS (I could be wrong I think I read that somewhere)

  .40 projo 180 to 200 grains at or about 1000fps is almost exactly like the old 38-40 revolver/ carbine cartridge.  Not bad.

A good many states have a .40 caliber, 200grain projectile @ 1000fps from a five inch barrel as a minimum big game handgun limitation.

So yes it will do the job if you do yours and put the bullet in the vitals.

CW

[SHOOTALL]

Hunt Va , 23 cal or larger and 350 ft lbs energy .

[jhalcott]

 While using a very accurate .45 acp for groundhogs around the barn I shot quite a few of them. I decided to test the .45 on some wet pack and other media to see the difference IF ANY in various loads. I was surprised to see that I could hit an 8" plate as far away as 50 yards with a full clip of standard ball ammo. The "wound "channel in wet pack was still sufficient to kill a deer (or human). Lighter, faster slugs did well also and flattened the trajectory some too. A friend had some goats he wanted killed and asked me to help. I shot several goats at ranges from just off the muzzle to about 50 yards. These are not particularly large animals, weighing around 50 to 60 pounds. Those animals did not suffer unduly when hit with the .45 bullet! Most would whirl and drop before the sights could be realigned on them. Very few bullets exited, and those were on longer shots. The bullets were 200 grain(@950FPS) and 230 grains (@900FPS). I HAVE used this gun on crop raiding does with good success. I would NOT reccommend using it for a trophy deer hunt.

[Shortgun]

I find the comment on Black Tallons interesting. The fellow mentions they are made to expand rapidly and therefore lacked penetration. As I recall they were outlawed because they were considered "COP KILLER" bullets due to the fact that they would penetrate body armour..that don't sound like a penetration problem. That style of bullet still exists today..they are just a different color.
I know a fellow in Idaho that regularly kills elk with .44 specials and similular powered handguns. In its day the old .45 "LONG" colt was considered a super powered handgun and killed everything that walked. So to the .357 mag in the early days was considered able to slay dragons. Now days the .44 mag is considered by some to be marginal on deer.
Is the .45 ACP enough for deer..you bet..under the right circumstances and used effectively by a compentent pistolero. Is it the best..nope. If you want to use it, the opinion of others matters not. If it is legal in your hunting area it is your decision to make. If you are good enough it will do the deed well enough. If it can be done with a sharp stick launched off a string at less than 300 FPS what makes it so difficult with any firearm?
Someone once said "A mans gotta know his limitations"

[SHOOTALL]

people forget the 45 Colt was made to use Black powder . The 45 ACP was to take its place and use white powder now called smokeless powder. John Browning sized the case to hold the right amount of powder for the bullet weight he used. It also had the correct powder density for the case and bullet. Why would it not be perfect to hunt with ? 

[Mohawk]

I am still baffled as to why this thread keeps growing . .45 ACP, Colt, and other variants do fine. I go below that in caliber and still have no problem getting meat. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[bubbinator]

I replied once and after reading it ALL again felt the need to reply again. On WW Black Talons-best bullet ever for 45ACP-now called SXT(code for same exact thing-   for the media)look for the RA45TP-230gr +P load. A sub-site in this post clearly puts the 45 ACP in the lethal range of most anything short of elk and bears for penetration and expansion, how many million buffalo were killed by a big slow bullet that lacked todays "expansion cavities" touted by magnum velocity freaks?  While I love my 220 Swift t will vaporize a crow at 200 yds(and kill a deer DRT) I dedicated my life as a LEO armed with a 45/9mm/40 S&W and 38/357 and a deer is not a challenge to kill when you have faced humans wanting to kill you armed with those weapons. You depend on the above calibers to save your life, yet question killing a calm, ambling less than human-size animal that presents you with a "perfect shot" if you are worthy of the reward? Re-the Crapson article- some 9mm and 40s out do the 45!  Stay away from Aguilla-cheap Mexican ammo and PMC (Korean) That page also puts some Corbon loads in question!

[Mohawk]

Good post, Bubbinator! I like to think of it this way, which I have expressed before. I have a nice, simple, quiet S&W Model 10-7, 4" bbl, .38 Spl that spends a boring life as a bedside gun 364 days a year. She was allowed out last November for 1 day. She downed a Whitetail with .243 authority. And since then she has remained at my bedside until the next time she is summoned for "duty". And in all honesty, it was no different than a Model 28 with .357 Mag loads, which does just fine.

[williamlayton]

I have kept up with this for a long time---I hardly ever post on this segment because I don't hunt anymore. Has nothing to do with politics--just lack of real interest.
If I were to hunt with a handgun I wouldn't feel lack of power under 50 yards with a .45.
I think I would prefer a longer sight radius and want a 6 inch barrel and probably a revolver.
Now if its hogs---whatever you got.
Blessings

[shot1]

For the question Sachel.45 asked about the 40 S&W. Yes any weight JHP or SWC or FN bullet going 1000 fps or better from a 40 will kill a deer when placed in the vitals. I have a friend that is a black bear hunter and this past season he had to shoot a bear that the dogs had hemmed up in a small cave with his Glock 22. He could not see the bear through the scope of his rifle in the darkness of the cave and due to the closeness he was to it. The only pistol that he owns is the Glock which he carries all the time for self defense. He said that he unholstered it to climb up to the mouth of the small cave to try to pull his dogs back away from the cave mouth. When he got within 10 feet of the mouth of the cave the bear decided it was coming out. When the bear saw him it stopped for just a second and gave him time enough to aim. He shot it through one of it's eyes with a 165 gr Speer Gold Dot and it blew a baseball size exit out the back of the bears head and killed it instantly. I think that same load should kill a deer out to 50 or so yards don't you. 

[PeterCartwright]

I once owned a Kimber "Compact Custom" (4" barrel/slide on an Officer sized grip).  The gun was with me in the blind when an antlerless deer stood perhaps 35 yards from me broadside.  I had an extra tag for same.  I'd been shooting 2" groups @ 25 yards with the 230 Golden Sabers in my magazine, I had a rock steady rest, so I thought, "Why not?"


At the shot, the deer stood on its hind legs and did the "cha-cha".  (I've had other heart shot deer do the same).  I could not find an exit, nor did I ever find the bullet, but the deer didn't even go ten yards.  The circumstances were pretty ideal, but it certainly worked.  Wish I could have found the bullet, though.


PC

[ChrisK]

If  it was legal in Indiana I would use my to hunt with everyonce in a while. I just carry mine because I can! .45 colt is pretty much the samething. I wish we had a power factor instead of a case length.

[bubbinator]

The Speer 200gr +P 45 ACP with 500+ ft/lbs enery and 1000+ fps muzzle velocity has exceeded any load I made and as a carry load for CCW helps preclude legal issues.  I haven't had a chance to use it on deer yet, but two weeks ago a feral dog over 60 lbs(healthy Lab size) came on my property chasing my free range Guineas.  I chased him in my truck until he came to a barrier(grown-up fenceline and had to pause. 40 yd behind the ribs angling forward put him down.  As a former Animal Control Officer and LEO-I had found canines a lot harder to kill with anything!  I had a 40# dog shot in a base dump with a 30-06 110gr Sierra JHP @ 3100fps drag guts and lungs for 50 yds when a deer shot with same load in the same place was DRT! Bottom line-as much as we hope- no 45ACP is a magic bullet, but you can stack the deck a little. 

[Old Griz]

As I recall they were outlawed because they were considered "COP KILLER" bullets due to the fact that they would penetrate body armour..that don't sound like a penetration problem. That style of bullet still exists today..they are just a different color.

I remember the Black Talons being described by the press as "a lethal spinning buzz saw." The stupid media not realizing what a twist ratio was. I don't remember them as "cop killers," but as being cruel and inhumane for cops to use on poor little criminals. Were they ever really "outlawed" or did Winchester simply remove them from the civilian market to end the bad publicity?

[shot1]

All Winchester did was remove the black coating on the bullet and change the name to SXT which means SAME EXACT THING  .