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Author Topic: Krupp Cheroot Cane  (Read 3490 times)

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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2011, 04:55:31 PM »
      Parrott-Cannon,   The bore length is 4.450".   It will be interesting to see your results.

T&M

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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
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Offline Parrott-Cannon

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2011, 06:12:54 PM »
Thank you for the information.  I am working on incorporating fffg powder into VP-SIM.  So I am not sure that I have all the parameters correct.  VP-SIM  predicts a velocity of 623 fps for the 30 grain load while you reported a average velocity of 644 fps or a 3.3 percentage error.  For the 20 grain load your average was 281 fps while VP-SIM calculated a velocity of 552 fps a 96 percent error. 

I am seeing a similar over prediction in mortars with a less than full powder chamber and I am working on a solution.
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Offline rampa room artillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2011, 06:36:51 PM »
just remember its a controled explosion.  and how controled are explosions??/??   different powder batches are very different. rightnow  i am shooting the hottest cannongrade i have ever seen.  hotter then a few lbs of 1 f i just bought.   just food for thought.
and in mortars, barometric pressure has a great deal of influence on powder burn.
rick bryan
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Offline Parrott-Cannon

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2011, 01:54:26 AM »
Quote from: rampa room artillery on April 16, 2011, 06:36:51 PM
just remember its a controled explosion.  and how controled are explosions??/??   different powder batches are very different. rightnow  i am shooting the hottest cannongrade i have ever seen.  hotter then a few lbs of 1 f i just bought.   just food for thought.
and in mortars, barometric pressure has a great deal of influence on powder burn.
rick bryan

Neither point explains the difference between 20 and 30 grains of powder shoot over 5 or 6 hours.  After a good night sleep I wonder if the patches were effecting the chronograph with the lower powder charge.  I have found patches at 6 to seven yards from the bore.
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For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security. (Thomas Jefferson)

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2011, 04:16:54 PM »
      Parrott-Cannon,  Those are the chronograph results such as they are.  We were focused on group size and placement on the target during this shooting session.  Now that you mention it, we don't believe that first set of results either.  It seems that far to little velocity is displayed to be a logical set of data.  It could be a slower fluttering patch or the low angle of the sun at 4  to 6 o'clock in the afternoon when we did those tests.  We have done extensive studies on chronograph aberrations before and even rigged up an entire cheese-cloth tent to shield the machine from the sun's rays in addition to the sky-screens which we have found to be normally unnecessary. 

Tracy and Mike
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Parrott-Cannon

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2011, 02:06:23 AM »
Quote from: seacoastartillery on April 17, 2011, 04:16:54 PM
      Parrott-Cannon,  Those are the chronograph results such as they are.  We were focused on group size and placement on the target during this shooting session.  Now that you mention it, we don't believe that first set of results either.  It seems that far to little velocity is displayed to be a logical set of data.  It could be a slower fluttering patch or the low angle of the sun at 4  to 6 o'clock in the afternoon when we did those tests.  We have done extensive studies on chronograph aberrations before and even rigged up an entire cheese-cloth tent to shield the machine from the sun's rays in addition to the sky-screens which we have found to be normally unnecessary. 

Tracy and Mike

Tracy and Mike,

Thank you for the information.  I did not know the sun angle could effect measurements with a chornograph.  I have always used shade or made mesurements on overcast days because I was not confident I could place a projectile between the sky-screen supports of the chornoghaph.

John
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For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security. (Thomas Jefferson)

Offline chefjeff

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2011, 04:06:20 AM »
Thanks DD.just spoke with Mr. Carpenter, one of the .36 navals is in the works!
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Offline FFFg

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2011, 02:23:35 PM »
Was the lead balls used in that test .375? I know Dominick mentioned his .36 cal bore uses a .360 ball. guess I am trying to figure out if a heavy patched .360 ball or a thin patched .375 would be appropriate. This stuff is still kind of new to me, just trying to learn. :)
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2011, 02:27:37 PM »
FFFg -

WELCOME to the board!

Good questions.  Keep 'em coming!
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Offline dominick

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2011, 02:48:37 AM »
Personally, I never patch a ball in a smoothbore.  I know others do. I don't think it's a big issue either way.  I load the same way the Revolutionary War minuteman loaded a musket.  He carried pre-prepared paper cartridges that contained the ball and the powder.   1. He tore off the round lead ball to open the cartridge and used some cartridge powder to prime the vent and closed the frizzen.  2. Pour the powder from the cartridge into the bore.  3. Drop in the ball.  4. Insert the paper cartridge after the ball.  5. Use rammer to seat the charge.  Here's a sketch of the cartridge. 

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Offline FFFg

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2011, 03:44:37 AM »
Dominick,

Thank you for your reply. The reason I ask about ball size is that in the test above, it looks like they are using Hornady balls and as far as I know, (not far at all) Hornady only makes a .350 and .375 .36 Cal ball. Maybe they were using the .350 which is why they were patching?

PM sent on your Cheroots :)
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Offline Rayfan87

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2011, 01:31:51 PM »
What kind of paper do you use for the cartridges?
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Offline dominick

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2011, 03:51:13 PM »
I'm not sure what they used back then.  I use newspaper.
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: Krupp Cheroot Cane
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2011, 04:19:26 PM »
Have you ever made one after the fashion of a bec de corbin?



Bore in the face and along the long axis of the head.  Make the head a bit more elongated, and have a four pronged face.
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