Author Topic: Has anyone made cannon launched pyrotechnics? (Read 1055 times)

flagman1776 · « **on:** July 08, 2011, 05:42:56 AM »

self delete

keith44 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2011, 06:35:36 AM »

COMMENT WITHDRAWN IN DEFERENCE TO MIKE AND TRACY'S SOUND AND SAGE COMMENT.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2011, 06:35:44 AM »

Flagman1776, Please don't consider these comments criticism; they are not, but I will impart to you some good information. Here on this board we try to promote safe ways to build and shoot cannon designed in the year 1898 or prior to that date. We don't discuss pyrotechnic materials or methods, because there are many, many boards that do that on a daily basis. It is commonly known that the quickest way to lose your right to engage in an interesting and educational hobby such as firing cannons large and small is to abuse the public at large. Local ordinances can spring up quicker than springtime tulips.

Also, we do not pay our sponsoring fees every year to discuss pyro topics. We would be very pleased to answer any question you may have about this hobby, which we consider terrifically interesting and fun.

Sincerely,

Mike and Tracy

subdjoe · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2011, 07:10:01 AM »

Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the comments by Mike & Tracy. The safety and legal issues are many and varied, and, I believe, beyond the scope of this forum.

(as tempting as it may be to discuss them!)

Quote from: seacoastartillery on July 08, 2011, 06:35:44 AM

Flagman1776, Please don't consider these comments criticism; they are not, but I will impart to you some good information. Here on this board we try to promote safe ways to build and shoot cannon designed in the year 1898 or prior to that date. We don't discuss pyrotechnic materials or methods, because there are many, many boards that do that on a daily basis. It is commonly known that the quickest way to lose your right to engage in an interesting and educational hobby such as firing cannons large and small is to abuse the public at large. Local ordinances can spring up quicker than springtime tulips.

Also, we do not pay our sponsoring fees every year to discuss pyro topics. We would be very pleased to answer any question you may have about this hobby, which we consider terrifically interesting and fun.

Sincerely,

Mike and Tracy

flagman1776 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2011, 10:31:53 AM »

delete

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2011, 03:44:00 PM »

Hey guys that my job...

brokenpole · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2011, 04:44:20 PM »

Quote from: Double D on July 08, 2011, 03:44:00 PM

Hey guys that my job...

Okay Mike and Tracy...now you've done it. You have gone and stepped on the toes of the grand poobah. You are in for it now.

Of course if DD weren't asleep at the switch...wait...did I say that with my ouside voice? My bad.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2011, 04:47:46 PM »

no comment

no comment

no comment

(Humor withheld to give the appearance of being civil.)

It's all been said.

Double D · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2011, 04:55:53 PM »

Flagman,

Forgive these Klown Kollege drop outs will yeah please. They expect me to actually sit here 24/7 and help you new folks stay on the golden path.

Come to to think of I pretty much do....

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2011, 05:58:06 PM »

I'm not sure what is the more interesting and entertaining... the ordnance or the interaction of the players.

Thanks for giving me (and maybe a few others) our chuckle for the day... smile on...

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2011, 08:11:33 PM »

There's a reason DD is in charge and gets the big bucks and the use of the company jet. Douglas, Thanks for all you do.

subdjoe · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2011, 08:22:41 PM »

Quote from: flagman1776 on July 08, 2011, 10:31:53 AM

It was not my intention to abuse either the public or this forum, nor to compromise safety in any way.

I don't think anyone was really trying to come down on you hard, Flagman. Just trying to be clear. The difference between a legal pyrotechnic shell and what ATF would call a "destructive device" can be very slim. And if you are projecting it out of a gun or howitzer, that difference gets even slimmer.

This is a case of avoiding the appearance of evil.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2011, 09:20:15 PM »

There's an old story:

Three men were interviewing for the job as stagecoach driver and were all in the same room with the interviewer... Interviewing the first the boss asks: "If you were driving the coach up the canyon road back of town here, how close could you come to the edge and not have the coach go over?" The candidate thought for a moment and replied: "Why six inches from the edge". Man two was asked the same question and replied "Why I could hang them wheels half way over and still be safe". Man three, somewhat older and grayer was asked the same question. He paused and then slowly replied: "Well... don't rightly know sonny. But I can tell you one thing for sure. I'm a gonna keep the coach as far away from that edge as I possibly can".

Guess who got the job?

Yup... Douglas.

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2011, 05:16:51 AM »

Serious stuff .

When Tim and I created this board way back in 2002, we really didn't know where it was going to take us. We knew we wanted to talk black powder cannons. We have played it by ear and adjusted as we went along about what is allowed on our board and what is not. Mostly we went with what we know and passed on what we don't.

Early on we came up with our version of an antique cannons definition, working around ATF's version and applying that as the scope of this board. Tim and I will define what an antique cannon is for discussion this board. ATF will define their rules.

We passed on including potato guns and propane cannons. We included toy cannons and were later required to include punt guns a part of this forum.

Early on we looked around for some safety guidelines for cannon and the only ones we found were those of the American Artillery Association and the North South Skirmish Association. We now point to these as safety criteria for cannon shooting and building.

From time to signal guns came up and we allowed them, until one of the board member question the legal class of a signal gun. Board member Powder Keg wrote a letter to ATF and got a legal determination. The letter is posted somewhere here on GBO just search Powder Keg's posts.
We have that as a board rule now. If there is a question as to whether gun is an antique then just write ATF and get a letter from them and present it to us for review. IF ATF say antique we will allow. The is another ATF rule about muzzle loaders in general. We have not had a letter yet on those. Board member Kerry in Kennewick is currently researching a bowling ball howitzer, that is supposed have one of these letter. As soon as we see the letter we will most likely allow that post.

The issue of pyrotechnics has come up a number of times. We have always allowed fire cracker cannon as a part of toy cannon category.

Tim and I decided that neither of use have the expertise to moderate a discussion on pyrotechnics. There is a big interest in hobby pyrotechnic building. That isn't what our board is about. There is also the legal issue of what constitutes a destructive device. Exploding shells present an added hazard to our hobby. Add in a mixture improvised effects and the obvious safety issues involved and we just didn't feel comfortable. So we decided in the interest of safety would not include those within the scope of this forum.

I am sorry, the Guys piled on you Flagman, they have been doing that a bit here lately, but their intentions were good. I would prefer you guys hit the report this post button and let Tim or I take care of the problem instead of piling on.

keith44 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2011, 06:48:49 AM »

if that's piling on you really need to get out more...

Seriously someone accurately mentioned that it was out of the scope of the forum, and sure enough by your own words it was. If someone can't gently nudge a co-member back into safe territory then we have taken a wrong turn.

Keith

RocklockI · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2011, 06:59:00 AM »

Flagman ,what kinda cannon are you shooting ?

Any pics ?

Gary

oltom · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2011, 08:03:10 AM »

YES:

[/size]NO:

[/size]

Cannoneer · « **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2011, 10:48:15 AM »

I am glad this thread evolved the way it did, because now I'm aware that this board still has only two moderators, and that it is proper for all other members (distinct from any other considerations) to continue regarding one another as peers.

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2011, 01:24:42 PM »

Kind of a side question since safe building rules were brought up: we talk about NSSA and recently another group has been talked about, also SAMCC rules are mentioned, doesn't the SAMCC have safe building regulations for guns used at their range?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #19 on:** July 09, 2011, 02:03:15 PM »

Quote from: Cannoneer on July 09, 2011, 10:48:15 AM

I am glad this thread evolved the way it did, because now I'm aware that this board still has only two moderators, and that it is proper for all other members (distinct from any other considerations) to continue regarding one another as peers.

Yup. Quite proper. We're ALL here to learn.

It was a natural progression to move from launching firecrackers to bigger things of similar nature.

Double D · « **Reply #20 on:** July 09, 2011, 03:31:37 PM »

Quote from: Rayfan87 on July 09, 2011, 01:24:42 PM

also SAMCC rules are mentioned, doesn't the SAMCC have safe building regulations for guns used at their range?

They are not quite that sophisticated. They shoot only small guns under 75 caliber that must be made in the spirit of the originals. Powder and ball for the shoot is provided by the club in pre weighed individual charges. They are having a competition, but isn't the dog eat dog type competition that I abhor as seen here in the U.S., They are not a litigious society and are not as anal as we are about safety. There "shot in the spirit of the original" rule takes care of most of the issues, like some one building a gun that is a antique replica on the out side and a modern gun on the inside. It also by default makes barrel standards fall into the one caliber rule

THe SAMCC shoots are more a Monthly social gathering than competition and are fun.