First, he joins Mexico..

[srussell]

I'm still waiting for  one of the left wingers to tell me what they would do/say if that had been their 16 year old. seems like if  they don't want to answer a question  they will not even acknowledge it was ever ask

[yellowtail3]

Short answer . . . No.

No? How so? C'mon.... explain the diff?

I'm still waiting for  one of the left wingers to tell me what they would do/say if that had been their 16 year old. seems like if  they don't want to answer a question  they will not even acknowledge it was ever ask

This isn't at issue. What is is issue is whether or not we want prosecutors and the state to follow the law. Do you?

Do we want the law changed, or just ignored when it is inconvenient?

I'm not really a left-winger, except by the curious standards of the echo-chamber, but... myself, were someone to hurt either of my little girls, I'd want to shoot the bastard.

[powderman]

Who here has a problem with requiring that prosecutors and the state follow the law?




yellow. Pretty plain to me that the obamination has a big problem with ALLOWING states to enforce the law. How many states, sheriffs, ect is he suing now?? POWDERMAN. 

[Casull]

This isn't at issue. What is is issue is whether or not we want prosecutors and the state to follow the law. Do you?

Hmm, but for some reason, Obama wasn't worried about it when his administration decided NOT to pursue the black panthers over election abuses, or went after Arizona for attempting to enforce the law, or chooses NOT to enforce the immigration laws, or gives Dick Durbin a pass for encouraging illegal aliens. 

[yellowtail3]

This isn't at issue. What is is issue is whether or not we want prosecutors and the state to follow the law. Do you?

Hmm, but for some reason, Obama wasn't worried...

That's no answer, so I'm going to be optimistic and try again: do we want prosecutors and the state to follow the law?

more info on this issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/us/28bar.html

Former judges, law enforcement officials, military leaders and diplomats have lined up on Mr. Leal’s side. Most take no position on Mr. Leal’s guilt or on the death penalty. Their argument is more practical.

“If we do not comply with our obligations under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations and the U.N. Charter,” said John B. Bellinger III, who was the State Department’s top lawyer in the administration of President George W. Bush, “we put at risk Americans, including Texans, who travel and may be arrested overseas. It is surprising that Texas does not recognize the risks it may be creating for its own citizens.”

True, Texas provided Mr. Leal with a lawyer. But the convention requires that arrested foreigners also be told of their right to speak with consular officials and to be put in contact with them “without delay.”

Billy Hayes, whose ordeal in a Turkish prison was the subject of the movie “Midnight Express,” wrote a letter to Gov. Rick Perry this month urging him to grant a reprieve to Mr. Leal. In an interview last week, Mr. Hayes said he could not have imagined negotiating the Turkish legal system without the emotional support and logistical help that American diplomats provided.

“It’s a different country,” he said, “different language, different law and different rules.”

Mr. Leal, by contrast, did not learn of his rights until two years after his conviction, and even then not from American authorities but from a fellow inmate.

Someone remind me - where is it that President Obama has gone wrong on this issue?

In 2004, the International Court of Justice in The Hague ruled for Mr. Leal and other Mexican inmates on death row in the United States, saying that American courts must grant “review and reconsideration” to claims that their cases had been hurt by the failure of the local authorities to allow them to contact consular officials.

In 2005, Mr. Bush told state officials that they must comply with the international court’s decision. Mr. Bush’s memorandum puzzled officials in Texas, who said it seemed inconsistent with the Bush administration’s general hostility to international institutions and its support for the death penalty.

Well... sounds like President Obama and President Bush are in agreement on this one. Maybe the Obama haters, along with death-penalty enthusiasts, will find a better reason to be angry at the Prez?

[powderman]

Hmm, but for some reason, Obama wasn't worried about it when his administration decided NOT to pursue the black panthers over election abuses, or went after Arizona for attempting to enforce the law, or chooses NOT to enforce the immigration laws, or gives Dick Durbin a pass for encouraging illegal aliens. 


CASULL. Uhhhh, that was different, they are helping him to destroy America, so of course they get a free pass.  POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

Stay on topic, Powder, and let's hash this out rationally.

This thread has been started with the premise President Obama was against America, for siding with following the law & international agreements. The example used to establish this, is the case of Humberto Leal Garcia Jr. If I've got the facts wrong, I'm sure mr iron will chime in (even if I've got them right, for that matter)

Is it in America's interest, and in the interest of justice, that we refuse to comply with our obligations under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations and the U.N. Charter?

It appears that President Bush had the same position on this matter, as does President Obama. How do you account for that, Powder? Perhaps President Bush trying to destroy America, too?

[Shu]

In response to diplomatic credentials Davis even though a Blackwater/Xe contractor did have those credentials. He sat in the Pakistani prison, The US govt did pay fines for him.
Under the rules no one with diplomatic immuntiy is to be arrested. There are plenty of "forieign diplomats" in the US who commit crimes and spy. When caught the are turned over to thier consulate. Pakistan did not do that.
Exactly how many embassy personel do you think are diplomats or on staff. You don't think there is no cloak and dagger stuff in any embassy around the world?

I am in no way saying rape and murder should be allowed, but if you are going to have diplomatic immunity it is good for all sides.
This is a double standard in DC.

The man in Texas was read his miranda warnings, his consulate was not notified. He should actually be retried with legal advice from his consulate.

BHO still needs to rip his head out. He needs to let states handle thier own affairs. the 10th ammendment of the constitution kind of says each state can govern themselves.

[yellowtail3]

Exactly how many embassy personel do you think are diplomats or on staff. You don't think there is no cloak and dagger stuff in any embassy around the world?

I know that there is plenty.

The man in Texas was read his miranda warnings, his consulate was not notified. He should actually be retried with legal advice from his consulate.

A reasonable position... of course, the accused will have to be alive in order to do that, and which I believe is the position of both the Obama & Bush administrations. It's been asserted in this thread that President Obama wants let the accused off; absent something more compelling than partisan political propaganda,  those assertions remain BS.

[Casull]

Quote from: Casull on Today at 02:57:45 PM
Quote

This isn't at issue. What is is issue is whether or not we want prosecutors and the state to follow the law. Do you?

Hmm, but for some reason, Obama wasn't worried...

That's no answer, so I'm going to be optimistic and try again: do we want prosecutors and the state to follow the law?

I've decided to take a cue from you on other threads.  I'm not going to explain my answer.  I mean what I said.  You'll just have to read what I wrote and try to understand it. 

[powderman]

yellow. I was on topic. This whole thread is about how obama seems to support everybody but Americans. How can you figure that he is helping America by supporting an illegal rapist killer?? Another thing, Bush is not president. POWDERMAN.