Huntsman 12 Guage does not want to fire

[lsharvell]

Hi All,

Looking for the wisdom of the group.

I picked up an old Huntsman 12 Guage and it does not want to ignite the primer.  This is the old press in breach plug (and yes I know about all the warnings/concerns with these).  It takes several hammer falls to actually ignite the primer.  It does show marks on the primer with each hammer fall.

In a test with no charge I have backed out the nipple quite a bit and it would be better but still not regular.  I even backed off to the point that it would ignite on closing.

There seems to be decent travel on the firing pin.  I took it out and cleaned it as well as the channel.

So I'm thinking that the most likely problem in the hammer spring?  Anyone know how to go about testing that theory or where I might get a new hammer spring?

I bough this at a antique store, the interesting part was that when I went to push out the breach plug I found that it was charged!

I would like to get it up and running and use as a turkey gun, but don't know if I will need to get it choked for that purpose.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Scott

[PHATINJUN]

You got quite a thinker problem here looks like your working all the usual suspects so I am not sure I can help much . Are your caps fresh? Also you may have to tear it down to really get any gunk out of the pin and spring area some times even when they look clean and free there is still more that you can't get to. It is the fat pin correct? Kinda sounds like whoever had it may not of cleaned it to well espesially leaving the charge in it.I would tear it down and make sure it's clean then start again. I really have not done a bunch of load tests with mine but you should be able to come up with an adequate load for Turkeys with out doing any choke work.25-35yrds as is unless you want to make it a killer out to 50 or 60yrds your cylinder bore should be ok. Kurt

[lsharvell]

Yep it is a fat pin model.  I have had the pin out and cleaned everything very well.  The pin moves freely and seems to only be limited by the slot in the pin.  There are alway marks on the primer so I think that travel is fine, just not hard enough.  I have tried various primers, but its the same for all of them.  I'm using #11 primers with FF Goex (Since I can still get real BP I'm sticking with it for now).

This is a model without the transfer rod for a firing mechanism.  So the hammer needs to have a fair bit of force as it does not touch the firing pin when it is down (this is the safety mechanism).  What I don't know is how much gap I should expect between the hammer and firing pin when the hammer is down.  I suppose that there could be something that is limiting hammer movement.  But it may also just need more spring.  I have not tried pulling out the hammer yet.

I saw that Numrich lists a hammer spring so I might just try that.

Once I can get consistent ignition then I'll try working up a load for it.  It was too frustrating as it currently is.  Any suggestions for starting points would be appreciated.

[cgoff]

Have you tried changing the nipple.  If they put a sidelock nipple on it, I believe that I read on here that they are shorter than the inline nipples.  Just a thought

[lsharvell]

I have tried different nipples on it.  I even tried adjusting it out further (just with primers, no load) and that made no real difference.

I had it adjusted out far enough that it would snap the cap on closing, so I know that it would not get any closer than that.

I think I will pick up a new firing pin, firing pin spring and hammer spring.  One of those should do the trick.

Just as an aside, anyone ever make paper shot cups for their ML Shotgun?  Wondering how that might work for tightening the pattern?

Thanks for the responses,
Scott

[PHATINJUN]

I have shot mine very little with shot but if you will put togeather a good load and make it pattern i promise to try it . Kurt

[lsharvell]

Well time to revive my very old thread here.  Since I last entered a post here I have finally gotten and replaced the hammer spring, firing pin and firing pin spring.  I also found that a CVA nipple had the same length as the nipple that was on to begin with.  The net result of all of this has been nothing.  It still will not fire the primer cap with any reliability.  Actually this weekend at the range I guess it was reliable, it was always on the third attempt.

I'm rather at a loss on what I should be doing now.  The firing pin is not bound in any fashion and the primer is indented on the first strike.  I also was cleaning the nipple with a brush after every firing.

I was thinking of trying musket nipples and caps to see if they work any better.

Anybody got any thoughts?

Patterned OK at 15-20 yards with 70 grains of FFg and 100 grains of #6 shot (all by measure).  Not too bad given that it is a cylinder bore.

Thanks for any thoughts,
Scott

[scratchmark]

is was wondetring bout the musket caps myself

[mcgiiver]

I would check to be absolutely certain, that your caps are fully seated on the tapered nipple. If not the hammer strike is cushioned and causes misfires. I know you stated your using #11 caps, but if you got #10 by mistake they are smaller and won't seat fully. On almost all my nipples, I put them in  lathe and take a couple thousands off the tapered section, I get almost 100 % ignition now. I have also found caps are subject to absorbing moisture and spoiling, make sure caps are fresh. Also, when you dump your powder in, hold gun vertical and rap the reciever a few times to settle powder into breechplug. FFg can bridge across the breechplug opening and #11's don't throw much flame.

[lsharvell]

I was trying to make sure that I seated the cap well each time, including cleaning it after each shot to make sure that no residue was causing the cap to hang up.

I did try filing down the original nipple a bit and had no better luck with that.

I am certain that everything is #11 and used fresh caps.

I have had no issues with igniting the FFg, every time the cap lights up the thing goes boom.  The whole problem is just getting the caps to fire.

Like I said I think my next step will be to try musket caps and see if they work any better.  If that does not run well I'm not sure what I'll do with it.

[Weatherman68]

If you decide to unload it please keep me in mind.  Depending on what you want we may be able to strike a deal.

[jedman]

  I have 2 Hopkins & Allen underhammer muzzleloaders that I changed there nipples to a musket cap nipple and get 100 % ignition everytime .
 The hammer strike seems less powerful than the H & R Huntsman has so I would think if you get one of proper length it should work with your gun.
  The Navy Arms musket caps that I use dont seem to need a hard hammer strike to make them go bang.      Jed

[PHATINJUN]

What is the overall length of your plug?? Does it basically fit flush with the end of the bbl when fully inserted?? Does the plug have an "O" ring around it?? and a white nylon washer/ring?? Kurt