Author Topic: Saw my New Topper 12 and Handi 270 today. Wow! (Read 1574 times)

jyracingm1 · « **on:** June 24, 2011, 07:26:55 PM »

I'm so excited! Never saw a H&R in person before. Wow! The Topper is absolutely beautiful. Two tone! Sleek black stock. Looks like a Henry's. The 270 looks tan and sexy. Got to touch and play with them both for 5 minutes today. Man, they are so light! The topper is very tight closing. I guess that is because its brand new. The bore on the 270 looks like its never been fired. Cant bringum home til July 5th.... 10 day background check. I hate California. But, my FFL will let me add the mount and scope while I'm waiting. Cant wait to see the Survivor 308 when it gets here too. Just joined a local 300 yarder private gun club just to shoot my new Handis at. On the 5th, I am going to be there with my Handis, multiple 12 gauge inserts, and the 270 scoped, hopefully.
The 270 doesnt have a scope mount though. Any recommendations on aftermarket mounts from personal experience, or should I go with a factory mount?
JY
Cant get the pics to load with my new browser. Here's link to pics...
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/jyracingm1/topperframeright.gif
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/jyracingm1/270frameright.jpg

Dinny · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2011, 07:52:06 PM »

I enjoyed reading your excitement. I get that ways sometimes when I get a new rifle. We're like kids at Christmas time all over again.

Take some time to read the FAQs, they will answer most every question you could ever have about a Handi rifle, to include scope mounts.

Thanks, Dinny

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2011, 12:47:15 AM »

Thanks Dinny. Been reading the mount FAQs. Its the first place I try to look now before asking dumb questions. The 270 is so light, I dont want to add a 5 pound scope to a 7 pound rifle. I have a neat little 4x32 pistol scope that I would like to mount on the 270. Probably will go with the H&R Standard rail, but I'm looking at the short Numrich 113580 3.375" long mount too. I would like a direct screw on mount that will follow the bore with no drilling, tapping, countersinking, etc. I will leave that stuff to you experts. I forgot to look at the rear sight area on the barrel to see what was there. My FFL was heading out the door when I got there, so I only had a few minutes to "play" with it. I think its missing everything on top. Will take a closer look at it Tuesday. Looks like it was never a peep sight gun and always had a scope. Gotta measure my scope ring distances and see what type of mount would work best. I would like the scope to be in front of the hammer so I dont have to use a hammer extension. Back to reading the FAQs.
Happy Shooting!
JY.

Datil · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2011, 06:49:52 PM »

I like factory scope rails the best! that should have come with one on it> Datil

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2011, 06:37:40 AM »

I don't think you will be happy with the pistol scope on the 270 rifle . You just joined a 300 yard club why would you want to limit yourself with a pistol scope? Get a 3x9 or a 7-12 power fixed . That new 270 will shoot 300 yards easy. Bout the only thing you can mount in front of the hammer would be a scout scope not sure how conducive that would be out side of 100 yards. In order to get good cheek weld you should also use Monte carlo stock some folks use straight stocks but for consistant shot to shot I like MC stocks. Nothing wrong with having a hammer extention mounted. Kurt

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2011, 12:24:17 PM »

That's what I thought Datil. Someone must have removed the rail. I bought it from a 2000+ positive feedback gun dealer on GB. I will try to pick up an extra factory rail then. Thanks.

To be honest Kurt, I'm not exactly sure what kind of scope it is. Pistol, 22, or big bore? All I know is its a Vector Optics knockoff 4x32 and its about 9 inches long.

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/jyracingm1/my4x32x9inchscopes.jpg

Here are its specs...
Magnification: 4x Objective Lens Dia: 32mm Ocular Dia: 30mm Ocular Length: 66mm Exit Pupil: 8 mm Length: 220mm (8.7 inch) Weight (net): 310g (10.9 ounce) Eye Relief: 115 mm (4.5 Inch) Field of View (ft@100yds): Field of View (M@ 100M): Field of View (@100yds): 4.5° Num of Lens: 10 Optics Coating: Multi Coated Reticle:Duplex Reticle 30/30 Elevation Range: ± 30 MOA Windage Range: ± 30 MOA 25.4mm Monotube Shock proof (1000g), Water Proof and Fog Proof (Nitrogen Purged) High-durability aluminum alloy in black matt and beautiful finish Features 1/4 M.O.A direct low finger windage and elevation adjustments with audible clicks for greater precision.

Do you think these work on a 270? I have a few of these. Want to try one on the 270 first. Then, if I like them, and you think they will get the 300 yard job done, I will mount one on the 243 and 30-06 barrels too that I have. The 243 and 30-06 barrels came with scope rails. The Survivor 308 came with its own mounted 3x9x40 Tasco.

I just dont like the look of the hammer extensions. Hoping these scopes will mount just forward of the hammer so I can cock it. Wont know for sure until I get everything in front of me and try to mount it.

Didnt think about changing to Monte Carlo stocks. Dont really want any more stocks. I bought all these to end up with one Survivor stocked/framed 308 and 4+ extra fitted barrels. Eventually hopefully, the 270, 243, 30-06, and 12 gauge barrels will all be fitted to the Survivor stock and frame. I just like the look of the Survivor stocks. Maybe I can add a black synthetic cheek pad to the Survivor stock to get a good cheek weld?

Thanks for the great advice guys.
JY

gcrank1 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2011, 03:26:20 PM »

After WWII a lot of guys thought a 4X was a fine varmint scope.

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2011, 04:13:19 PM »

Gcrank, are you saying that its fine to go with the old school 4x32 or are you saying that modern thought is not to use them? I always used my 3x9, set on 3 power, on my Rem 742 auto, even at 300+ yards.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2011, 06:47:38 PM »

So much is a matter of perspective; if it works for you, go for it! We are truly in a blessed age in so many ways, and Im spoiled because of it. Seems as I get older the things of my youth hold more of a facination, part of it is rediscovery and the realization that some of it worked pretty well. I think that is why these silly single shot rifles are popular here, and to me the 'modern' optics look out of place (but I have seen some pics here of the syn stocks and all that are nice packages) on a more 'traditional' tip-up action with real wood.
I know a nice, clear 4X32 would have been quite the thing (hey, it WAS quite the thing) for a long time for a lot of shooters, and I would be hard pressed to keep up with their hits or scores.

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:03:19 PM »

I agree

Those monster scopes seem to overshadow the wood Handis. I think the wood stock Handis look more proportionate with the nostalgia looking smaller scopes... Scout?, 4x32, etc. My Survivor, aka Sniper rifle looks good with the 3x9x40 (or even bigger) and its big black stock. I would like to reach 600 with it. Got to see and play with my Survivor today for the first time. I love it!!!
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/jyracingm1/pix595553054.jpg

Heavy gun compared to the 270. Wow, its bull barrels is FAT! I read that the hot setup is too fill the butt stock with lead shot. I have 50 pounds of reloading shot for it. What gauge shot should I use? 2, 4, 6, or 8?
I think I am going to go with the 3x9x40 Tascos on the 308 and 30-06 barrels and 4x32 scopes on the 243 and 270 barrels. The more I look at the 270 the more I want to keep the whole wood setup too.

Wont know what works for me until I get to the range next week. I checked the cheek fit on the survivor stock today and it feels real good. Need to move the scope just a bit to naturally see the whole field. I like the big knurled forearm takedown knob. A screw in bipod would look so cool attached on the forearm screw. Do they make single screw-on bipods for the Handi forearm screw?
I looked at the top of the 270 barrel and it has 3 staggered, inline, threaded screw holes with screws in them.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:31:21 AM »

Those are the factory D/T scope base holes; I like the factory rail just fine, but I dont have to deal with the recoil of something like the .500 (no scope ever on ol' OverKill!).

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:29:21 AM »

I have a few of the old Redfield 4x32's and for me anyway 100 yards is the max on them for me anyway as I like 8to9 power for between 1-200 . Then out to 300+ 12 up to 18 power so for most of my longer range guns they sport 3-12's 4-16's or 6-18 variables just personal choice I guess. You can get 2 differant size cheek pads for your survivor stocks from Choate Machine. I have both the high one and the low one I only use the low one as it works well with med to low mount rings. I kind of envy you guys who can make 2-3 inch shots with those 4x's over 100 yards .I sure can't. Kurt

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 30, 2011, 10:06:43 AM »

Wow! I didn't even know they made an 18 power scopes. They must be for bench rest shooting only. I have a 20 power spotting scope I could use

I have never shot at a paper target at more than 100 yards. I was lucky to get 4" patterns by the time I was done sighting in. Never even heard of MOA before coming on this site. After reading all these posts, I'm all about MOA now lol. If I cant hit the side of a barn, bench rested with a 4x32 at 300 yards, the next trip to the range it will have a 12 or 18 power on it

The goal is 3 hits in a 1" group at 300 yards, since that is the shooting ranges limit, with the 308 and 30-06 calibers on the Survivor setup. Doubt I will ever do it though. But, it will be fun trying.

All the other calibers are just to have fun and use up free ammo. I feel like a 10 year boy old going to the range for the first time with my first Springfield 22LR rifle... again. Like Gcrank said, I'm rediscovering my youth. We get the best of both ages now.

Will definitely look into Choate Machine cheek pads when I get my ring heights established, thanks.
JY

gcrank1 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 30, 2011, 11:01:39 AM »

If you can get 3 in 1" at 300yd. you better start competing ! (a MOA rifle and shooter theoretically would do about 3" at 300, really its a bit larger), dont think Ive heard of a Handi that has done it and, IMHO just more scope power wont 'make it happen' or guys would be doing it.
Dont despair, your 'goal' is a noble one and the pursuit will keep you well occupied!
Have fun

geezerbiker · « **Reply #14 on:** June 30, 2011, 11:04:41 AM »

I have a 6 to 18x scope on my .223 Handi rifle but it use it at 6x most of the time. I haven't had much chance to shoot past 8 yards with it so I can't comment on the long range accuracy but I'm pulling good groups at this range.

Tony

gcrank1 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 30, 2011, 01:51:30 PM »

Somehow I just 'know' you probably meant 80yd.

,

geezerbiker · « **Reply #16 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:59:32 PM »

Yes, I meant 80 yards. If there is one thing I'm outstanding at, it's typos...

BTW, I scored a shopping bag full of .223 cases (about 1500 of them) and I'm going to be loading like crazy as time permits... I can see a lot of varmint shooting in my future.

Tony

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2011, 09:41:18 PM »

I can shoot MOA at 8 yards.... I think. Thanks for the support. So a more realistic goal would be 3 to 5" at 300 yards? I'm curious to know why the Handis are not considered to be consistently accurate at long ranges? Length of barrel? Warpage between shoots? Scope movement? Movement on frame? Barrel movement while the bullet is travel down the bore? Bad rifling?

I'm thinking that if everything is solid and the is no movement (sand bag benchrest) then theoretically it should be consistent?

Just opened the beautiful 243 barrel I got from Frgerald. Has a factory scope rail. Gonna try one of my 4x32 scopes first on this one and the 270. Picking up at least two of my new rifles tomorrow. Cant wait!!!
Jy

gcrank1 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:42:28 AM »

See the FAQs
Absorb the FAQs
Become the FAQs, grasshopper

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2011, 10:19:30 AM »

Thank you Master Po,

Especially the How to Accurize FAQ

Kwai Chang Caine

LilHog · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:28:39 AM »

I just use a 2-7x33 scope on my 357 handi, never needed anything more and it's plenty for me. jyracingm1 congrats on your new handi's, each one is unique in it's own way. Let us know how they shoot...

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:39:17 AM »

Thanks Hog, will do. On my way out the door to my FFL now with my empty 2 gun hard case

How is the accuracy on your 357? Will it stay on paper @ 100 + yards or so? What loads are you shooting in your 357?
I'm looking for a virgin 357 barrel (not maxxed) to shoot my labeled "357 only" 38 Special (8.0 Herco, 158gr SWC, 1100 fps) reloads in. Supposed to only shoot them in 357 pistols.
JY

LilHog · « **Reply #22 on:** July 06, 2011, 12:49:13 PM »

When I first got the 357, it was all over the place at 100 yards. I thought something was wrong with the barrel as I was getting 10" groups. All it needed was to be broken in and it took about 50+ rounds to do it. Now it will shoot a 2" group at 100 yards and I'm no marksman by any means. I'm very happy with it and I use factory ammo, WWB and some herters now and then. I also have a 44mag with open sights, that's a real fun gun to shoot and I need to put a scope on it to see what it can really do. I don't reload as of yet but I saw a RCBS kit at Cabelas that I'm going to buy and try and reload 357 and 44 mags. Best of luck with yours!

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 08, 2011, 06:09:50 PM »

Wooooohoooo! My Handi 270 and Topper 12 are home FINALLY, after the 10 day waiting periods. And, I have the 243 and 30-06 barrels now too. The pristine 270 looked tight and snug on the frame. No movement at all when locked up with or without the forearm. Opens and closes freely. The last 3 numbers of the serial number on the frame match the 3 numbers on the barrel. Nice factory fit.

I lined up a bunch of old tennis balls about 10 yards from the front door of my house in my hot front yard. Shot two rounds through it freehand out my front door from my air conditioned living room (I live in the middle of nowhere) and hit the tennis balls twice with no sights at all. Its MOA at 10 yards lol

I tried to mount the virgin looking 243 and 30-06 barrels on the 270 frame, but they both wouldn't quite lockup. They both seemed to fit nice and solid, but I just couldn't get the release lever to click up to the locked position. The barrel face gaps both looked flush and even. Will dig into fitting them more next week with a .375" file, feeler gauges and smoking the latch. But offhand, I think I may need to adjust the latch engagement just a bit. I'm thinking that too tight is a much better starting point then too loose?

I'm not going to attempt to do any barrel fitting yet, until I pickup the Survivor 308 on the 18th (after another damn 10 day waiting period) and I can try them on the 308 frame. Crossing my fingers that the 243 and 30-06 barrels fit puuurfectly on the 308 frame.

Then I loaded up the tight as hell, NIB Topper 12 with a 12 gauge shell. Did the same with one 20g, 38/357, 9mm, and 22LR round in their chamber adapters... There are a lot of DEAD tennis balls all over my front yard

Since the 270 barrel didnt come with a scope rail on it, I'm stealing the scope rail off of the 243 barrel. The 270 will be scoped by the end of the night.

Thanks Hog. 2"@100yards is awesome with a 357. I will do a slow, 50 round breakin on all of these, before I get upset that I can hit a bullseye

I don't reload either. I inherited a ton of my Dad's reloads.

Thanks for all your help and advice guys. I couldn't have done this without ya all.

JY

1AM: The scope is mounted and ready to site in. Fits my vision perfect without a cheek rest and the hammer isnt covered.
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/jyracingm1/Photo005.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/jyracingm1/Photo006.jpg

gcrank1 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 09, 2011, 11:21:47 AM »

That sits nigh on to perfect!
Your barrel fit approach is sound (ie, making sure about fit on all receivers first), and it sounds little a little (very little) material will need to be removed from the lugs. Dont do anything to the latch or latch shelf too soon, its easy to think you can adjust fit there when it just isnt sitting quite deep enough from proper lug fit.

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 09, 2011, 12:56:44 PM »

Will do GC. I'm chicken too take any tools to these barrels. Dont want to ruin them or make them too loose. When you say "proper lug fit" are you talking about fitting the half moon shaped pivot point on the underlug? I'm thinking that by removing material from that pivot point will just move the barrel farther away from the breech face, but not allow the barrel to sit lower in the frame??? The problems with both barrels seem to be that the barrels are not resting deep enough in the frame to allow the latches to seat???
Unless, by deepening the pivot point, it will allow the barrel latch to seat deeper into the frame somehow.
Your thoughts?

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 09, 2011, 02:40:29 PM »

Well PHATINJUN, its all your fault. You said to do it, so i just picked up a used Bushnell Trophy 6x18 scope

Gonna save it for the 30-06 barrel.
The guy had a 3x9 Camo scope too, so I bought it just for the 243.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 10, 2011, 04:42:46 AM »

Yes, the rear of the barrel is rotating 'around' that pivot point and with it 'too close' the barrel cant sit deep enough, thus doesnt latch. It can be only a matter of a few thousandths in the hook.
The ONLY time I would consider taking material off the breech end of the barrel is if the rim cut or headspace was too deep when it was chambered, so you want to check that before you really do anything else. Its all in the FAQs, but when one is unfamiliar with a process, that needs to be done in a certain order, it can be easy to come to a wrong conclusion and whittle on something that shouldnt be. You are doing good to talk it through here first before jumping in. Mess with closing it up on the 'best fitting' frame, visualize whats going on, measure gaps, maybe even learn how to take the extractor/ejector out, since it needs to be out to properly fit up anyway.

jyracingm1 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 10, 2011, 12:41:14 PM »

Thanks GC. I have read the FAQ 10 times. Need to read it at least 10 more times. Good to know that a horizontal problem (pivot making the barrel too close to the breech face) can cause a vertical problem (seating depth), which in turn can cause a latching face problem. I was thinking that they are 3 unrelated problems. I wont touch the barrels with anything other than an oily rag until after the 18th, when I can legally pick up the Survivor 308 and see how they fit on its frame.
Speaking of extractor/ejectors...
Please looks at the attached pictures.
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/jyracingm1/Photo012labeled.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/jyracingm1/Photo013labeled.jpg

On the 30-06 barrel there is a pin sticking out about an 1/8" (see arrow at bottom of photos). This pin is not sticking out on the other 2 barrels. Before I attempt to drive it back in I wanted to make sure that its not supposed to stick out like that . Should I tap it back in?
Looking at all 3 barrels, I noticed that the 270's SHORT spring thing on the bottom of the lug is different than the 243 and 30-06 barrel's LONG spring. Checking the FAQs I now know that 270 is a 2nd Gen extractor type and the 243/30-06 are ejector types.
This raises the question, since the 243/30-06 wont lock up on the 270 frame... Could the lockup problem be related to the 243 and 30-06 being ejector types???
You said to do a proper fitting the extractor/ejector really needs to be removed. Not a task I really want to attempt at my current level of ignorance about Handis.