Author Topic: "Please evaluate this antique Spanish cannon..."  (Read 1012 times)

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Offline cannonmn

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"Please evaluate this antique Spanish cannon..."
« on: July 13, 2011, 05:21:49 AM »
I was asked this question in an email yesterday.  I don't know the person who sent it.  Here's the photo of the cannon.  The cast-in mark on the chase reads "MDXVII."  It is 28 in. long and weighs 26 lbs.  They paid a lot of money for it.
 
What would you tell them if they'd asked you (assuming of course you'd do it for free?)
 

 Original photo below by Greg Martin Auctions Inc., used here under doctrine of fair use for educational purposes.
 

Offline little seacoast

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Re: "Please evaluate this antique Spanish cannon..."
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 05:54:39 AM »
Opinion worth price charged (nothing)
A general impression of  newness and questionable casting is all that I can add. Does not appear to be antique or serviceable in this picture.  The barrel decorations in particular don't look well done. That said, I'm nobodies expert on anything cannon.
America has no native criminal class except Congress.   Sam Clemens

Offline RocklockI

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Re: "Please evaluate this antique Spanish cannon..."
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 06:51:13 AM »
I'd tell them it has been rebored  :o . The casting looks ok to me ,no clue other tha that .
 
Gary
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: "Please evaluate this antique Spanish cannon..."
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 07:32:02 AM »
Wish they sent you more photo's with more detail on the moldings and coat of arms..... the photo they sent really dosn't help a lot..... it looks old but it's only one photo .....
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

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Offline keith44

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Re: "Please evaluate this antique Spanish cannon..."
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 08:28:32 AM »
I would say do not shoot it.  The large chip at the muzzle swell indicates, to me at least, that this cast piece has occlusions in the casting and it is a brittle material.  Take some time and make it look complete set it up for decoration.
keep em talkin' while I reload
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: "Please evaluate this antique Spanish cannon..."
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 12:48:26 PM »
I would say the obvious that MDXVII is 1517 for starters.  Then I would say I need a lot more detail pictures for any kind of useful analysis and I would also say that I can't give them anything more than a line or two for free.  If you think my opinion is valuable, then it is valuable.
GG
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Offline cannonmn

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Re: "Please evaluate this antique Spanish cannon..."
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 01:07:47 PM »
The item shown is what we cannon collectors call a "decorator."  It was probably cast in the late 19th C. or sometime during 20th C.  It was made for the same folks who like to decorate with repro suits of armor and repro halberds, broadswords, etc. on the walls. I've seen similar cannons with different decorations that I knew were probably cast in 1950's or 60's.  Some were accompanied by stories about being dug up near St. Augustine, FL.
 
A real Spanish cannon of about that size looks a lot different and weighs about 70+ lbs.; I've seen many and have photos and data on them.  There are large Spanish cannons cast in Lima with dates in Roman numerals near the muzzle but those numerals run in a belt around the muzzle.  The area where the phony Roman numerals appear on this item is where the "given name" of a Spanish cannon normally appears, either cast-in (early) or engraved (18th-19th C.)  The muzzle-to-trunnion diameter ratio is higher than seen in most Spanish cannons.  Small Spanish cannons normally have no dolphins.  The smallest Spanish cannon I've seen dolphins on is a 3-pounder field gun at USNA that was cast in the Philippines (Manila) ca. 1780.  It weighs around 300 lbs and is around 4 feet long.  The vent on this item is simply drilled with no vent field at all and small real ones I've seen normally have some sort of vent field (raised moulding.)  The general design of this tube is quite different from the few basic small-Spanish cannon tube designs I know of.  This item lacks the weight marking required on all Spanish cannons; usually seen on the trunnion but can show up on top of breech also.  Cascabel of small Spanish cannon is usually a hollow tube, however don't confuse real Spanish cannons with Malaysian Lantakas, they are a whole different animal.
 
Here are real Spanish cannons from about 30" to about 50" long; each plank is about 6."  The lightest of these cannon tubes is about 75 lbs. 
 
"C" is the one Allen (Kabar2) got for me way back when.  It still has a West Point Museum ID tag on it and the curator at that place about had a heart attack when he saw it in a display I had at a gun show.  Fortunately I had already traced it down to the massive scrap-metal donation West Point made during WWII, something like 300 tons of old cannons, and the former curator knew all about that.